Paintball

[10-shot kid]

A consistant issue I've seen/heard people complaining about this season (and past ones to a certain extent) is ref issues in regards to players abusing them to circumvent scenario rules when possible. I'm not talking about how they can regularly be abused in other games, IE calling numerous BS paintchecks on people to screw them up, I'm talking moreso about people using refs to find out things they can't.

This can be as simple as me seeing a random object on the field that doesn't belong there and asking a ref "what's the rule on that bomb over there?" I don't know if it's a bomb or a prop but if the ref doesn't know what he's doing I might find out with little danger to myself in just a couple minutes. To be fair I've done the inverse of this by dropping a fake prop near a base then having someone ask the ref the same question, much chaos and hilarity insued. I've always found it quite cheap though for someone to go "I don't feel like calling the bomb squad" and getting the ref to do it.
Another example that's been done to me recently for the first time was a group getting a ref to demand my mission card/ID card when I was pulling a "I'm a roleplayer, you can trust me, bring me to your base" stunt while marked as the other team. What's the problem with this? Refs arn't supposed to be doing that sorta thing at players demand, it's up to them to figure out if I'm full of it or truthful.

I've seen popular varients of this move pulled. Basically players send out a ref to demand something or other they shouldn't be demanding. While it's not direct proof the person is something they are not showing, or have something worthwhile, it's a direct indicator.
More examples (?=question, A=actual question seeked),
?: "what's the time left on the other teams mission?"
A: Are those guys on a mission

?:"sniper shot on that commander over in that group of 100 or so"
A: Is there general over there and if he is pop him

?: "ref, is this ___ for this game or last years?"
A: verify this is real game money/ordinance/prop of choice

?: That helo is outside it's boundries!
A: What are that helo's boundries?

The worst one on the player level (in my opinion) is getting a ref to sign off on a mission card without him being there/the mission actually being done. This is blatant cheating so F whoever does that. This rivals with calling BS saftey violations on the other team in order to slow them down but that's not just in scenario.

I'm not going to put anymore as those are the most popular ones I see used that just about everyone knows. Maybe I've taught one or two kids how to cheat but that balances with the importance of having this as an open conversation. Anymore examples and I'd think we'd lose the balance so take care in posting replies.

Finally the last abuses I've seen are the worst on the scale because they are at the command level. One is the threatening of the game producer when someone has something happen they don't like. For example "I'll wreck this game and bring everyone off field with me if you don't give me X" is a huge problem unless X is a bloody saftey concern (I will pop anyone who dares bring up game you know which). A less agressive one is "I will shoot all press unless you X!" or "I'll just start shooting every walkon entering the base" etecetera, etecetera.

The only other I've seen is the depositing of prop caches in base ref's backpacks or personall items. their base get's blown and they either go "DON"T TOUCH MY PERSONAL POOP! I'LL HAVE YOOZ EJECTED FOREVAH!!!" or the base ref just goes "my backback is out of play haw haw haw." The whole abuse of personal property dealy-o is something I'll be adressing in another thread.

So what should we do? I've never been one for letting the rules of the game rest on the field staff alone. People pulling these stunts are bloody cheating and should be treated as such by any player with a dose of integrity. Time and time again I've seen players who otherwise would pop a cheater let these people get away with what they're doing.

Using a ref to think for you, or as a recon dude, is not "playing the game" it's taking advantage of a ref who doesn't know any better. This is commonly not noticed because of how similar these tactics are to other ones that are "playing the game."

For example tricking central command into giving me multiple ID's. Is it wrong? I honestly have not yet decided on that one.

An example I used above of having one kid on the other team ask if a fake prop you planted is a bomb or not. I've always found this one fair because I'm tricking your side into doing something retarded. Doing this with a one real bomb two fake bomb scheme where your base randomly blows up and much chaos insues is fun. I digress.

Those are the only hints you get from me. There's other methods too I've posted on in the past. The diffrence between these tricks and legit ones is that your only tricking the ref, not the other team. That's wrong in my opinion and by most rule books.

By increasing everyones awareness of this BS, and policing our own, we can nip this practice in the butt before it grows.

[Clearush]

Originally Posted by 10-shot kid

?: "what's the time left on the other teams mission?"
A: Are those guys on a mission

answer - why don't you ask them

?:"sniper shot on that commander over in that group of 100 or so"
A: Is there general over there and if he is pop him

answer - what's he wearing/identifying mark before I go over there

?: "ref, is this ___ for this game or last years?"
A: verify this is real game money/ordinance/prop of choice

um I don't really see the issue on this one, I guess the reff could tell to player they need to figure it out themselves, but I don't really see the point

?: That helo is outside it's boundries!
A: What are that helo's boundries?

hmm I've not reffed at a game where helo's were restricted other than entering buildings and the reff should dead the helo in that instance anyways so I don't see the issue with this one either

my job as a ref is to faciltate missions, and jack with the players as much as possible.

now on the inverse, last game I reffed at least 7 people were judge punched for shooting at Helicopters to "make them go away", since not shooting helo's in flight is a well established rule and very well know by all players should the judges just start number punching and ejecting players for blatantly over shoot a helo in flight?? One of the reffs had to threaten a group of 10+ with number punches and ejection of the whole group for this continued violation after multiple warnings minutes before.

And should a player receive a number punch for running from a judge coming to issue a violation punch.

[Amoryl]

personally i think a player should be ejected for fleeing from a ref. but I'm hardcore for following rules

[pintbuster]

I have run into some "grey area" players. I would hate to play my heart out, only to aceive a loss because of a shortsight from the rule callers. Quite frankly I have not brought my son to a scenario because of the blatant cheating of some players. If people keep trying to find an "edge" to play around I will continue to be absent.

[BigOldSkool]

Lest I forget the incident I was dragged into at Skirmish with a fake ref distracting a real one so an assassination attempt could be tried...ugly situation more so considering I was a dead player walking off and nearly got caught it the stupid crossfire.

All the more reason I wont go to Skirmish any more.. Stalingrand was the first last and only skirmish event for me ever.

[pintbuster]

BigOldSchool that is what I am talking about. I want to play paintball not Dungeons and Dragons. Why is it that we can not send our players out to meet equally on the field and slug it out?

[pillage]

Originally Posted by pintbuster

BigOldSchool that is what I am talking about. I want to play paintball not Dungeons and Dragons. Why is it that we can not send our players out to meet equally on the field and slug it out?

But that would actually be simple and fun. Oh yeah, I would rather just shoot people with paintballs and have fun. I must not be a sophisticated player after all.

[10-shot kid]

Clearush: Those are much more clear cut examples of people being pricks

Big: I've heard like 8 diffrent stories about that, would love to get yours sometime. That whole field is a total peice of **** the majority of the time.

Pint buster:

"Why is it that we can not send our players out to meet equally on the field and slug it out?"

It's called a big game, there are lots of them, have fun.

[Clearush]

Originally Posted by BigOldSkool

Lest I forget the incident I was dragged into at Skirmish with a fake ref distracting a real one so an assassination attempt could be tried...ugly situation more so considering I was a dead player walking off and nearly got caught it the stupid crossfire.

All the more reason I wont go to Skirmish any more.. Stalingrand was the first last and only skirmish event for me ever.

Anyone impersonating a ref should be ejected from the game and permanently banned from the field/producers future games.



10-Shot Kid - I thought about it a little more, I think the real issue is age and experience. Not to disparage any player willing to ref it's just simple human nature and maturity level, older people with more experience find it easier to deceive younger less experienced people than someone their own age. Of course there will be exceptions to this.

[Old Man]

Originally Posted by pintbuster

BigOldSchool that is what I am talking about. I want to play paintball not Dungeons and Dragons. Why is it that we can not send our players out to meet equally on the field and slug it out?

You could play speedball.

Senerios I've have played have spys/counterspys/double agents, engineers,mutition experts,decoys,fake props ect,ect... That is why they are called senerios, the object is to win over your opponet with deception,trickery,or by outright overwelming force.

If you just put a bunch of guys out there and did straight elimination it would take all of the story lines away, it would do away with all the role playing that plays a big part in alot of senerios, and it would take away having to try and use your wits against and opponet that is tring to beat you by deception,trickery, or by overwelming force. It would then just be plain ole rec woodsball.