Paintball

[Harbinger[TG]]

Originally Posted by Viper Paintball

Last year I had someone who was to command a game in that state offer to fly me out and take care of my lodging, food, admission, paint, and everything else if I would play for him. It was hard to explain that I simply refuse to play in that state. He knows me, so he understood. But that is how distasteful I find the bahavior of paintballers in that state. I simply cannot enjoy playing with most every player following every string of balls he throws with "Get off my field you cheating piece of !"

Don't ask what state I'm talking about. For business and political reasons I won't say. If you've ever travelled there to play you already know. If you go there you will find out.

If it isn't my state, I bet it is really really close.

[Silence]

I was about to say the same thing.

I've been mulling that over for a while. I've not been around long enough to compare, and I generally take "those were the days" sentiments with a grain of salt, but it seems that lately people have taken a turn for the hyper-aggressive. I've played a few games this year where I experienced the exact same thing Viper did - I'd be standing behind a bush, someone would fire off a string into it, and then they'd start screaming for a ref, for a paintcheck, "get off the field you <insert bodily outflow>". Meanwhile I'm standing there clean as a whistle wondering how in the hell anyone can think they hit me through a bush that would stop a tank round.

I don't really remember that from previous years. Maybe I just missed it and it was always there. But I think it ties in with 10-shot's thesis somewhat; personal responsibility and respect tend to go hand in hand. When you lack one, you tend to lack the other. A lack of respect also breeds cheating, as everyone has a breaking point where they'll do things they otherwise wouldn't in order to teach someone else a lesson. You get overshot a few too many times, you get screamed at enough, there's a better chance you'll do something you regret. Then someone sees you do it, and he gets pissed, then someone else, and bingo, you've got a hostile field.

[Surge-NS]

Originally Posted by 10-shot kid

Surge-NS: Your basically agreeing with exactly what I wrote

Agreed, I read the whole thing at work so admittedly I missed a bit of it in the skimming. Shame on me. The intention was to approve of your opinion .

P.S. I also didn't mean to put all the blame for the cheating on a certain type of paint ball players, if I made it sound as such, I was just trying to attempt to explain the origin of the attitude.

[Viper Paintball]

Allow me to clarify something as well. When the only scenarios out there were produced by me or Wayne Dollack I was very big on the whole "play for fun" outlook. However, now that everyone and their brother (and their sister, and their uncle, and their cousin, ad nauseum) is a "scenario producer" there are plenty of scenarios for the people who are "just there to have fun."

So a couple of years ago I began to market to those who are tired of going to events and wanting to play hard and test themsleves, only to have folks harass them or demand that they "reign it in a bit." As far as I know mine are the only 26 hour scenario events where players are invited to play as hard as they can as long as they maintain the required level of sportsmanship and fair play.

That last sentence is the key, as well as my point. While some promoters wish to discourage players/teams from playing to the best of their abilities, I encourage it. However, I will not allow it at the cost of the level of sportsmanship and following the rules. Cheating and bad attitudes have nothing to do with a desire to win, and everything to do with poor upbringing and outlook.

Someone who is truly skilled and interested in competition will never cheat as it would only cheat themselves. It's all a matter of who you are there to impress. If you are there to impress others cheating, and getting away with it, serves it's purpose. If you wish to test your skills against others for your own satisfaction cheating only robs you of the reward.

At the 2006 Grand Finale I got 43 barrel tags in 45 minutes. That was for me. Do others believe it? Do I really care? I don't know. I know I did it, and now I have a new personal best to try and beat. Had I cheated to do it I would have, ultimately, cheated myself out of the best reward...impressing myself.

[Chappy]

Originally Posted by Viper Paintball

Someone who is truly skilled and interested in competition will never cheat as it would only cheat themselves.

I've played your EMR events for the last two years, and am very excited about this years as well. Your scenarios are top notch, and some of the most fun paintball I have ever played. Thanks for all the hard work, as well as the awesome attitude you bring to the game.

[Harbinger[TG]]

Originally Posted by Viper Paintball

Someone who is truly skilled and interested in competition will never cheat as it would only cheat themselves.

I have to disagree with that part K. I have seen people on some of the best and most recognized teams "cheat" and a lot of them chalk it up to pushing gray areas as a means to justify their actions.

[Viper Paintball]

Well, I'll disagree right back

Cheating is defined as violating the rules. I have tiptoed into some "grey areas" that simply weren't defined. If it's not a rule you can't violate it. However, I have almost always asked first, and I felt no guilt afterward. Knowing the rules is knowing the game...and scenario paintball was conceived to be a thinking player's game...regardless of how many these days try to dumb it down, or encourage those in charge to do so.

I was captain of one of the hardest hitting scenario teams out there back around 2000 and prior. We did alot of things that were seen as pushing the rules. We never broke one of them. We held ourselves to a high standard. So much so that we developed a "code" that I suggest to other teams even today. If you were running your mouth or behaving poorly, and another teammate walked up and put their hand on your shoulder and said quietly "Remember who you are" you had to immediately shut your mouth and walk away without another word. Doing anything but this was tantamount to a full resignation from the team. We all agreed to this at the team meeting where it was proposed. It worked. Everyone behaved, and no one resigned in that way. I was furious about someone cheating and was running my mouth. My good friend Z put his hand on my shoulder. I walked away. We were just as concerned about cheating. Anything that reflects poorly on a team's image is unfair to all of your friends on the team who have worked so hard, of so long, to build that reputation and image.

But it's okay Harb...we can disagree and still be friends. Of course, I may shoot you in the butt at the Finale for it.

[Harbinger[TG]]

Note: I said most chalk it up to gray areas not all. Be warned I might shoot back

Lets see. Helo's staying out way beyond their fuel limits, shooting while continually moving.
Going out of bounds and then coming back in.
Inserting in the middle of the field.

Those are the ones I have seen recently beyond the usual wiping, playing on, etc.

We have kicked people off of TrailGunners for doing dumb stuff off the field away from games in their personal lives, we have no qualms about removing undesirables from our team. We do it for our honor and good name, not a sponsor, potential sponsor, or any of that garbage. We do it for us.

[Viper Paintball]

Originally Posted by Harbinger[TG]

Note: I said most chalk it up to gray areas not all. Be warned I might shoot back

If you're shot in the butt you're out. Don't shoot back or you'll be cheating.

[Harbinger[TG]]

Originally Posted by Viper Paintball

If you're shot in the butt you're out. Don't shoot back or you'll be cheating.

I can just punch your card
Undercover Harb!