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Old 11-21-2012, 09:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Lightened hammer with seasonal finish

A friend asked if I could get his PGP to shoot over 200 fps. I said "you bet"; all the while wondering what else I might do to it.

It was in decent shape, so I just put in a lighter valve spring, a lighter bolt bearing spring, made sure a valve port was facing up, and threaded an adjuster screw into the back. I figured I needed a lightened hammer to go with the spring, so I heated an old one up in my dim garage to cherry red and let it air cool, trimmed it down, and got ready to heat it back up and quench it in oil.

I found some of last years' turkey frying peanut oil to quench it in. It came out blued...



It lost a little more than 7 grams out of 49.

Happy Thanksgiving!
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Nice job and it looks good. How does shoot now?
I have mixed feeling about light hammers, sometimes they
help and other times I have had low fps numbers after about
10-12 shots.
Did you think about drilling out the center for spyder or cocker springs.
It sure makes the cocking action easier.
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:51 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by WALZ View Post
Nice job and it looks good. How does shoot now?
I have mixed feeling about light hammers, sometimes they
help and other times I have had low fps numbers after about
10-12 shots.
Did you think about drilling out the center for spyder or cocker springs.
It sure makes the cocking action easier.
It now starts at around 250 and tapers off to 220 over about 12 to 15 shots. It's very rate sensitive and always has that steady, naked 12 g drop off. For the barrel bore and the paint, it's not terrible. If you crank it up to 290 on the first shot, it gets about 10-12 shots on a steady rate of fire and tapers off that much worse.

I think my friend uses this only as a side-arm, so I didn't want to change out the valve or put an index screw in it. The brass is in great shape, as is most of the valve train.

That's funny about the spyder springs, I was digging though my box looking at different springs, and held a spyder spring to the hammer and thought about drilling it out. I figured I should be able to find a lighter one of the same diameter, but I will probably have to buy it. Larger springs would be nice...

The lighter valve spring must have been headed for a very good increase to come up so well with the lightened hammer. The hammer is only ... about 14 or 15 % lighter. I guess that's fairly significant.

In these non-cart valves, it seems like it would be easy to put a little restrictor plate after the plug seal to make sure you flash the CO2 off before it heads out of the barrel (assuming that would help).
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Old 11-22-2012, 11:35 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Here are some other ideas that will enhance performance:
Try using a palmers tapered dyna-valve pin (the best)
You can also taper a standard dyna-valve pin yourself and save a buck.
Modify existing valve to a one hole and drill it out to its max
also taper hole out or just buy the complete one hole valve and tapered pin kit from palmers for 35.00. (the easist and the best also).
Add the "nail" mod to your bolt and the tenticle mod.
The number one best way to up your fps and shot count is to open up the transfer ports between barrels but you need to drill it out from the bottom or top to do this or remove barrel and redo. If you go from the top add a site rail to cover top hole and if from bottom use set screw to seal hole. (if you go this route be sure to add a bit of solder to both sides at port location to insure the seal),
Paintballguy3 makes a very nice extended brass rva that will allow you to use longer springing also. I like them a lot...
I am sure I forgot something here but others will chime in I"m sure..
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:52 PM   #5 (permalink)
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well day-yum!

So, yeah, might as well mod a little more.

Thanks Wally!

I installed a #6 button head as a "nail mod". Adjustable!

Did a partial tentacle/phantom-loop mod, kind of small line (my test paint is not small).

Staying on the conservative side, I drilled one hole out in the valve body. I then file-notched the end a little and filled it with nail polish...



When I installed the valve I finagled it around until the notch faced the body port for alignment.

I wasn't able to chrony in the dim light, but the usable shots doubled! It was also weird to be lobbing balls across the yards after the 30 count. Definitely a slow taper-off in velocity.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
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VICTORY!!
Looks like you won the battle and looks very nicely done to boot.
Now you might try cutting down a speed demon bolt to pgp length
for smoother cocking action..
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:59 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Too bad you just missed the General Joes centerfire bolt that sugarstump just sold on ebay. Might be the next idea. I haven't done extensive testing but people who have say that it's a 20-30 fps increase by switching to that centerfire design.

I did a couple bolts recently like yours per the persons request. Haven't tested them though.




For the valve, ideally you get rid of the "turbo" style and just have the one hole. I found you can knock off one side and make a brass sleeve to go on there. Then a couple of short set screws to hold it on the sides.




Sniper42 did one from scratch here:
non-PPS Performance tuning

Actually that whole thread is pretty good. The stuff from 3022 including the charts are pretty interesting. This thread and this chart is another good one.

Why is the non- cartridge valve better?
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:04 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Yeah, I checked those out. Very interesting. I considered putting three set screws in the valve ports, but just went for the alignment thing by itself.

I'll have to let my friend play with his PGP before I do much more to it.

The thing that struck me about 3022's charts is that they all have that velocity decline in them. I am sooo used to regulators now.

I do like speed demon bolts. I started paintball with a piranha long barrel, and never should have given it up for the "team gun" of a unibody phantom.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:16 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I have used even alot lighter hammers with good results:



Commonly Im using on my tunned Sheridans lightened hammers whitch have weight 15-17 grams (original has 42-43 grams), but for some markers the best were 8g (titanium) or 27 grams. It depents on the whole marker combination. Commonly below 15 grams you will have problems, but between 20-30 grams you should be surely better than with original weight. The hardest part is find the optimal spring combo for the marker.

There is difference what will do 21 gram hammer (the half weight of the original) when you use him on the stock marker with only different main spring strengt:



There is imho not question if you should use lightened hammer, but what weight he should have. The key is eliminate the bouncing, and speed up the valve operation (full open and full close the valve before the ball is you of the barrel, or better before he starts moving).

+ you will have better trigger action with lighter hammer.

Last edited by 3022; 03-26-2013 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:31 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider! View Post
... The thing that struck me about 3022's charts is that they all have that velocity decline in them. ...
That is not problem of the marker, or of valve-train, but me, because im dumb. Better tunned PGPs have stable velocity during whole shooting. Few of my markers and - i think - all Palmers do not having such like problem.

Altrought it is true that it looks so that the velocity stability is the hardest part of Sheridan performance tunning.

But in comparsion with stock PGP you will be commonly better with tunned gun and for small pistol the velocity decline is not big problem. I liket it even when I have played pump-only games - with first shoots you have sniper gun, with the last "only" low power marker for close range fighting. With that the PGP will teach you both play styles : -).

Last edited by 3022; 03-26-2013 at 11:47 AM.
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