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Sidearms Bring on the Pistols! From Splatmasters to modern day semi-auto pistols.

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Old 01-25-2012, 04:57 AM   #211 (permalink)
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Full auto revolver? lol

Technically there IS a revolver with the DRV but it is admittedly not within most peoples' range of affordability. That and it's not the most practical thing out of the box. I've managed to massage mine into quite the little mongrel though, just have to finish up the k-frame adapter and the top strap/sight combo.
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Old 01-25-2012, 05:11 AM   #212 (permalink)
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Practicality has nothing to do with it. There is only a handful of those DRV's out there.
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Old 01-25-2012, 05:21 AM   #213 (permalink)
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Yeah, I suppose that's fair to say as well.
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Old 01-25-2012, 03:01 PM   #214 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentSmith View Post
Seriously though, I always knew that people wanted pistols, with the choices available from Warsensor, RAP4, Tiberius and Tippmann there's only one pistol segment left empty....
high capacity mag, smaller caliber, semi auto?(well, higher than 10 anyway)

a fan-able hammer gun?

a pump gun that to cock it you have to twirl it?
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:05 PM   #215 (permalink)
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.68 cal, F/S capable, Single Action Army. With the flip open trap door for loading would be great.
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:05 PM   #216 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dundadun View Post
high capacity mag, smaller caliber, semi auto?(well, higher than 10 anyway)

a fan-able hammer gun?

a pump gun that to cock it you have to twirl it?
The pump gun that you have to twirl to cock is already in the hands of Weltman, there was a video around here somewhere...

There are designs on desks for the other great ideas you guys have had.

I was actually not thinking in those terms. Rather I was going for the fact that there is a good selection of low priced semis, a few good choices for mid range semis... and no choice for a top end semi. I've been harassing the guys at CCM!

There's a market out there for a pistol in the $500 to $1000 range.

People took a couple hundred dollar sheridan, sent it to Palmers along with ANOTHER $300 to $1000, just to get a quality semi in spite of the fact that their performance was NOT a quantum leap over even the cheapest of semi pistols. These people were not crazy. Those that have them, like my Efriends Manning and the 10shot Kid have the kind of experience that makes Harley's outsell kawasakis.
I play pistol and I believe life is too short to hunt with an ugly dog. Noone gets a tear in their eye as they hand down their Glock to their son. It's a tool, a good tool but it's not an heirloom. It doesn't produce the attachment that can make a shooter really love that ONE pistol.
I gave my old zeus to one of our great young players at HS, Private Ryan. That pistol shot Bill and Adam Gardner in the same game, players in the SPPL from Dynasty, Avalanche, the Philly Americans and more along with hundreds of scenario and big game players, it was still a hong kong JABB. I was done with it, so I gave it to someone that could use it. He still does.



If I could send CCM a $250 TPX and another $300 to $1000 and get an aluminum bodied TPX with a side co2 dropout, trapped plug, ambidextrous mag release, adjustable trigger, skeletonized 1911 style grip frame that took regular 1911 panels and a top vent rib with shotgun style double bead, I'd have my check in express mail already.

Look at the continued value of the Sydarms, too. It's not the quality of their function that makes them popular, trust me. It's the quality of their build.

If I could get a proven valve train and use easily available cheap mags and stock parts to keep it cooking? With styling and design that were all out?

I wouldn't like it for a primary, but as for the First Strikes, there's only one design for my backup that would maximize the functionality of that round, could use either the TPX or T8 valves inside and would make me shell out over $500, without a quiver. This:





Rob
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Last edited by agentSmith; 01-25-2012 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 01-26-2012, 04:35 PM   #217 (permalink)
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It's frustrated me down the road that people have not made pistols in spite of the fact that every poor one sells like hotcakes.

The last part of the tiberius8 hit the table in 1988.
24 years ago.
We had all the technology for a pistol with an appropriate semiautomatic valve 24 years ago.
The pistol parts had 100 years of development and the valve was perfect as born. Ouch!

I can say everybody missed the boat and get blown off.

The sales numbers for combined pistol sales, between the JABBs, the T8s and now the TPXs will not be blown off.
It's reasonable to say that had that pistol happened in 1988, as it could have easy as falling off a log, it would have made a ton of money for whoever made it and sold steadily from then to now.

Marketing departments PRETEND people 'suddenly want' pistols to cover the fact that they simply didn't listen and STILL DON'T. They tell people what they want, in almost all cases.
The BT SA-17 is a perfect example.
There's alot of great people on here with ACTUAL pistol experience, any of you get a SA-17 to try? I sure didn't.
I could have told them about their co2 catastrophe in the first 3 minutes and saved them money and a black eye. Plus the remedy I would suggest would actually work for all co2s as opposed to the contraption they pulled from the nether regions.

It's ego, which I have a peeve about, I admit. These guys' egos won't let them admit they don't know everything about every facet of paintball.

When the T8 came out, Tyler Tiberius had never played a game of pistol paintball in his life and it showed.
Had the T8 been set up with cheap mags and an underbarrel co2 as I and other actual pistol players on SASE cried for AT THE TIME AND BEFORE IT OFFICIALLY CAME OUT, there isn't any doubt that they'd now be closing in on 100,000 pistols sold.
That's why they're getting whupped by the TPX, which has otherwise identical performance, those key factors.
Key factors that anybody with a year or two behind a PBpistol would've told Mr T before they finished sitting down. It's fun to use and a novel system beloved by it's users, but not quite as good or practical as it could have been.

I know this will sound to some folks like ego that they didn't call me. It's not.
It's the disappointment of the years I spent using slapped together crap that makers had no pride in.
The AFT might as well have come with a roll of scotch tape to hold the mags on, it was a pitiful joke. They didn't care.
Even the Squall is pistolstupid. I don't know if Glenn Palmer played a dozen games with a pistol before he set it up(sure he has by now!), but if he did, it did not show. A front load hole like the Sydarm and every stickfeed on every stupid nelson he ever owned and he wouldn't have needed the back plug. Not needing the backplug he could've put the ram on top and the LPR in front of the trigger. All the same parts, better balanced, one tube wide. I suggested that setup seconds after handling my first stroker, I'm not a genius- I just have experience!!!! Experience enough to know you don't pour in paint with the BORE DROP RIGHT THERE IN THE WAY. Obviously Glenn Palmer had loaded sheridans before and saw that big hole there, so I can only assume he was making a pistol to shut up some customer and just didn't care how well it worked.

The really truly dangerous problem with the SA-17 co2 system is at least being addressed. The makers of the PT series and the Delta68s didn't care at all who got hurt. Poor BT just did what the idiots before them did but actually had the integrity to feel bad about it.

Tippmann called around, however my personal opinion is that the engineers did that at first mostly because the marketing department didn't want anything to do with a pistol, 'because nobody plays that way'. Just like Tom Kaye said in 88.
The engineers FIRST had to collect proof that people wanted one, to win the argument to get it made. That is my own analysis of the situation.

There's a few basic valve systems that will fit in a pistol, there's a few layouts that have proven worthy in the centuries of pistol development and the decades of paintball. You could, through simple process of elimination, come up with designs not tried.


Sorry to the people I've undoubtedly offended but I will say this.
I've played pistol for 25 years now, thousands of games. less than 50 games of which were 'pump or pistol' type games. I see regular markers working and being worked on all the time. When I wanted to make up a regular marker for a spy mission, I WENT AND ASKED SOMEBODY WHO KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING.
It ended up a Procarb with honed and polished internals, an SL-68 trigger spring, Shenko safety-stop, angled ASA, direct stabilizer and JCS stock. You could walk it over 10BPS easy. IF you want to try it, look up my teammate Skiddz, he still loves it.
That was another part of the birth of the TPX that bugged me, getting accused of being a Tippmann Lackey, when the ONLY time I'd taken the field with any regular marker in my whole life in paintball was a mass execution against the Tippmann team to protest the death of the Procarb, which really enraged a friend of mine.

Scout from Armorsquad was part of my insert, most of whom I lost right before I took the highlands.
He caught a few pics of me, you will never see the like of this again, trust me.

click to embiggen

It made me feel dirty and a bit like a cheater. I did take 2 bases in a big game in less than 15 mins. No dead man's walk either, just took that 50rd hopper and turned on the hose!

I write this not to say I told you so, but to PLEAD with anyone who might be incubating a pistol design, please, please, PLEASE let an actual pistol player or two try it!

Remember the evil overlord todo list!
Quote:
12.One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation.

74.When I create a multimedia presentation of my plan designed so that my five-year-old advisor can easily understand the details, I will not label the disk "Project Overlord" and leave it lying on top of my desk.
I see the list has a new home!
Evil Overlord List - Television Tropes & Idioms

We'll alter it to "One of my advisors will have five years of experience with the style of marker in question. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation".

That sounds like a pretty good rule actually....


Rob
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Last edited by agentSmith; 01-26-2012 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:27 PM   #218 (permalink)
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The SA-17 had so much potential, all lost on an old design. Still I like it and I think I have made an improvement. Untested on the field as of yet (damn seal!) but hope to sometime in the coming month. Appologies for the quality. I was going to enter this in the how fast can you reload thread but this modification is incomplete without the springs in the mags.

Springless pistol reload.MOV - YouTube

I hope somebody can take my idea and run with it as this pistol really needs a mag system, and a more reliable CO2 change.Doubt anything official would come out though seing as that first strike mag never turned up

[IMG][/IMG]

The down side to this mod is you are probably limited to double taps. My plan is to eventually put springs in the mags giving me a super light weight mag system similar to the TPX. With spring, follower and end cap, compared to the original tube feed for the SA-17, these weigh one third the original weight.
They also hold more than a TPX mag and I think may weigh the same, plus fit in a standard capless tube holder or a shotgun belt.

[IMG][/IMG]

All this weight saving is needed as the 17 is a brick...

Last edited by biteweasel; 01-26-2012 at 08:50 PM. Reason: Added pics
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:05 PM   #219 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentSmith View Post
Remember the evil overlord todo list!
I'm truly shocked you didn't Quote #27.

Quote:
I will never build only one of anything important. All important systems will have redundant control panels and power supplies. For the same reason I will always carry at least two fully loaded weapons at all times.
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Old 01-26-2012, 11:50 PM   #220 (permalink)
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Exactly my point Biteweasel! If they'd sent you that gun six months before it came out, they'd have had the basics of a real improvement.



Add to that the secret technology for locking a tube in, displayed in this highly classified photo:



and the lost Incan secret of spring loading:



And They would've had a mag they could sell competitively with TPX mags.

It would have instantly been the JABB of choice, staring in the rear view mirror at the rest of the field.

But they didn't do that, instead they operated on the theory that noone would actually USE a pistol, they'd simply buy it as a favor to BT...


VoodooAddict,
That was an omission on my part! To make up for it, I'll quote football coach Darrell Royal of Texas:
Quote:
"If worms carried pistols, birds wouldn't eat 'em."
and Clint Smith, Director of the Thunder Ranch:

Quote:
"Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets. I may get killed with my own gun, but he's gonna have to beat me to death with it, cause it's gonna be empty.

Rob
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