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Old 07-08-2013, 01:28 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Murf425 View Post
I'm not, and never have been the proof guy. All I know is that dry fires with my eNMEy and a Revy with fresh batteries, using a single finger, very commonly dry fires, forcing me to wait for the impeller to kick on and load another stack. Believe me or don't; makes no difference to me.
That's entirely fair.

And by the way, just in case, don't take any of the above as snarky-ness. It wasn't given in that spirit. Quite the contrary. Your review of the EnMey is what largely sold me on it as a potential 'getter-nexter'.

Just wanted crystal clarity on the speed thing.
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:58 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:53 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I'm fairly sure that I can shoot 10bps+ with the enmey, just shooting it normally, no fanning. The trigger pull is basically perfect, it even feels to me like there is a small amount of reactivity. Next time I am out at the field, I will get a recording and analyze it.

Revvys may feed at a max rate of 12-14 bps, but I wouldn't doubt that they are slower than that at times. Also remember... the guns we used back in the day with revvys, they typically had longer feednecks, which means larger ball stacks. You shoot 3 shots on an enmey, and the ballstack is gone, the revvy may not be fast enough to have the next one down in the breach.

I remember being able to consistently outshoot my old 9v revvy with the single trigger mechanical blowback in my avatar.
The 9v revvy claimed 10-12bps. I'm guessing I was shooting around 8-10bps when I would outshoot it.
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:47 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Again,

I'd love to see 10 bps with standard grip trigger pull.

Truly.

As for the outshooting-the-Revy matter, yes, it is certainly possible. It is a gravity loader as well, and all kinds of things can happen.

And certainly the old 9v VL2000s were very slow, about 8bps.

My point had more to do with the speed necessary to truly outrun it all the time, running at optimal efficiency, and 14 bps would do it.

I suspect that there may be a lack of appreciation for just how fast that is.

7 bps is plenty fast. Lots of people can't hit this speed.

8 bps is very fast. Most people can only hit it sparingly or with adrenaline, if they can hit it at all.

9 bps is extraordinarily fast, but still do-able in rare circumstances, or to rare shooters.

And 10 bps is unbelievably fast. As in, (literally) machine gun fast. Easily fan-able, but in normal actuation my bet is that only a tiny handful on the planet could ever hit this speed.

See for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rULEdrhla0c

If you can actually shoot a single trigger mech this fast, with normal grip/pull, then you should strut. With a cape and cane and top hat. And maybe a monocle.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:00 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Menace I totally get what you're saying and I agree completely. I've seen posts for years from electro guys all claiming "why does anyone need ramping when I can hit 20 BPS in semi" and I just laugh. You can explain it til you're blue in the face but people are still going to wildly guesstimate rate of fire and distance in this sport until the day the Earth stops spinning. May as well save your breath.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:06 PM   #26 (permalink)
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It's not the constant stream in my Revvy that I outshoot, it's the ~5 ball queue that gets set up when you stop shooting that I have no problem outshooting. With my Cocker, I just got used to only shooting a few shots and if I still needed it, to slow down anything beyond that.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:14 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by desertT1 View Post
It's not the constant stream in my Revvy that I outshoot, it's the ~5 ball queue that gets set up when you stop shooting that I have no problem outshooting. With my Cocker, I just got used to only shooting a few shots and if I still needed it, to slow down anything beyond that.
That's the way I play. I don't need a non-stop stream of paint. If I can't get you ge first couple of shots, you already know Im aiming at you, and will most likely duck back.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:22 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Yeah, I thought I was fast with my fingers until I tried practice mode on my Bob Long 2k6. I only got a consistent 10-11bps. It sounds a lot quicker.

If you jump to 1:11:30 of the AGD tech vid, Tom says that Tim Gavin (sp?) hits 7bps with his single trigger Classic 'mag and is super impressed by that. He's one of the fastest fingers they've recorded at up to 9bps in bursts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIsWtxuvCKw

So hitting 10bps with a single trigger mech is pretty impressive and, quite frankly, highly unlikely with the general populace. I thing AO ran a "fast fingers" contest and a guy hit 16bps on an Emag if I remember correctly. If in doubt film yourself and Goldwave it to see what you're really at.

Now, with that being said, Revvy's tend to overstate their loading rate. I mean, most loaders do. 50bps with the Magna? Yeah, right. The real world tests I've seen with Revvy's show that 10-11bps is all that I would expect out of a Revvy. They're faster when they're fuller, but really bottom out near the end of the hopper.

WARPIG - World And Regional Paintball Information Guide

So, it is possible to outshoot a Revvy with a mech (ie. 10bps on the trigger with only a few balls left in the hopper). It's just very unlikely/specialized situation. Ie. you could do it with the stacking situation desertT1 outlined.
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:54 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Agree with all four of you.

And Jaccen, thanks for posting the video. I'd thought of the AGD video and Sandman/Gavin, and he is unbelievably fast, even though he bobbled and his string in that video averages only 7~ bps. I think he hit two shots in that string that were at 9 bps (they were .11 second each, as I recall).

And that is blazing speed.

But this also doesn't mean that a Revy can't be outshot, or doesn't bobble. It certainly can happen, and the ballstack issue is certain at work here, or can be. All kinds of things can be at work that prevent the Revy from operating in its ideal function.

Probably should have been more clear in the earliest posts to indicate that it is the consistent top speed necessary to outshoot a Revy that tickled my skepticism, rather than any specific incidents of loading failure that might also count as outshooting, but which would (in my opinion) not fall under the category of the intended proper function of the Revy.

So my apologies for the poor presentation of the argument.

EDIT: We've been haggling over the business of outshooting a revy, and this is a fun video to demonstrate just what kind of feed rate those old things can produce when functioning properly, and hence the reason for my initial skepticism. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3p4qTAJxD4
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:11 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Menace View Post
Again,

I'd love to see 10 bps with standard grip trigger pull.

See for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rULEdrhla0c

If you can actually shoot a single trigger mech this fast, with normal grip/pull, then you should strut. With a cape and cane and top hat. And maybe a monocle.

I'm pretty sure that I can shoot that fast or faster with the enmey. I'm hoping to hit the field tomorrow and get a recording. I'll post the clip. I may eat my words, but... I'm pretty sure.
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