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Old 07-11-2013, 05:08 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I have sound checked myself dry firing a few times with various markers. With my old Tippmann Pro/Carbine 5-6bps was most I could do. With my old Single Trigger AutoMag with Rt on/off 7bps was steadily doable. 2 sec Spikes to 8 could work and I could fan to 9bps or 10bps or so.
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Old 07-11-2013, 08:48 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Tim Gavin (sp?) hits 7bps with his single trigger Classic 'mag
And the eNMEy trigger is MUCH better than the classic 'Mag trigger. If 7 is possible on a 'Mag, I have no problem at all believing 9 or 10 is doable on an eNMEy.
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Old 07-11-2013, 09:37 AM   #33 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=Murf425;2754961]
Quote:
Tim Gavin (sp?) hits 7bps with his single trigger Classic 'mag[/qote]

And the eNMEy trigger is MUCH better than the classic 'Mag trigger. If 7 is possible on a 'Mag, I have no problem at all believing 9 or 10 is doable on an eNMEy.
That is a fair enough point. The eNMEy trigger's pull is leaps and bounds better than even single-pulling an RT trigger. Never shot a ULT but I bet it's probably slightly better than that too.
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:54 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samthepainter View Post
I'm pretty sure that I can shoot that fast or faster with the enmey. I'm hoping to hit the field tomorrow and get a recording. I'll post the clip. I may eat my words, but... I'm pretty sure.
As noted before, I'd truly love to see this for a number of reasons. Eating one's own words is sweet if garnished with a new truth. So I'm very much looking forward to eating mine if you can do it. Good luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf425 View Post
And the eNMEy trigger is MUCH better than the classic 'Mag trigger. If 7 is possible on a 'Mag, I have no problem at all believing 9 or 10 is doable on an eNMEy.
Also concur on the trigger difference. TinyBear's numbers look right on, and support this. And from what I've seen in your vid and others, the EnMey unquestionably has a beautiful trigger. So if Gavin could do 9 with the old classic trigger, well . . .

The problem is that I'm not Tim Gavin, and neither are most players. I've always taken numbers like TinyBear's (for the markers/setups clocked) to be pretty good, certainly above the average.

So while I would definitely expect those numbers to climb on the EnMey, that would mean maybe 1 bps. Bear in mind that's a very substantial increase. My numbers on a mag are pretty decent, and while my speed increased a little bit from the classic on-off to the RT on-off, it was only on the order of a fraction of a bps.

A bump of 2-3 bps is an astronomical increase.

Again, I'm crossing my fingers, still skeptical, but also really hoping to be wrong.
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Old 07-11-2013, 08:46 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Here is an image of the sound clips from today:
http://i.imgur.com/8zkyCVs.png

The first image is me shooting 2 separate bursts.
The one below that is taken from the 1st string of shots.
The one below that, is taken from the 2nd string.

Both individual strings show 10 shots within a second. The average was around 10.5bps.

Sound clips here:
Full clip: full clip
sample 1 from the first string of shots. 1 second recording as you can see from the image. 10 shots, 10bps+: string1
sample 2 from the second string of shots. 1 second recording as you can see from the image. 10 shots, 10bps+: string 2



That was me on the practice range, I can shoot slightly faster in a real battle.
I was using my enmey, stock trigger. When I want to shoot as fast as possible, I use the middle finger because it's slightly faster than my index, but I was not fanning the trigger. Like I said before, the enmey trigger is great. I could shoot blowbacks and mags around 8-9bps, and the enmey adds 1-3 bps.

I completely agree that there has been a lot of exaggeration within the realm of paintball bps, but not from me. I can probably shoot faster than most people, but the potential is definitely there with the enmey. I don't think a single trigger can get much better without going super reactive.
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:59 PM   #36 (permalink)
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In reference to this pic:

http://i.imgur.com/8zkyCVs.png

If I read the image above correctly, Sound1 and Sound3 are hitting 10 - 11bps just like you're saying. The first, "thick" register is the ball shot, the next more sparse register is the bolt hitting the bolt stop, and repeat. That's my guess as to explaining the charts, anyways. Very impressive, to me, for a mech. Someone should bust out numbers from a pneumag/ULT for a "old sk00l vs. new kewl" battle

So, I guess going back to the original question of a Primo on an Enmey my answer would be "It depends."

I have limited experience on a Primo. I use a Tacamo and, while I realize it's not a Rotor, for my style of play (ie. multiple moves, a few quick shots, always on the run, a few snaps, etc.) it works. I'm not laning from the back can. So, for me, that style of gravity hopper works.

Menace's own tests provide some good insight into whether or not a Primo would work.

Proto Primo

Of note to me are his numbers for these 2 tests:

Quote:
Agitation ‘at need’.

For this test, hoppers would be agitated only when balls jammed. Here are the numbers for elapsed time in each of the 20 drop cycles for each of the hoppers. I should point out that during this phase both the Dominator (which I’ve used for ages) and Indian Springs loader did so badly as to be ejected from the trials. And from my service, world without end. Since the Revvy rendered this need moot, only the Viewloader 200 and the Primo were tested in this phase. I’ve listed their feedtime in seconds side by side, for easier comparison.

These numbers give an average 6.418 bps for the Viewloader, vs an average 8.179 bps for the Primo. It is most interesting that in this phase the Primo had a higher feedrate than even the VL2000.
Quote:
4. ‘Feed burst’ count. This test actually arose out of observation of the ‘at need’ agitation test. I noticed that while the VL 200 typically seemed to spit out only a few balls with each agitation, and hence, required more agitations, the Primo seemed to produce streams of paint each time it was agitated, and hence, needed fewer agitations. So I tested it with 5 drop cycles. No timing was done in this portion. Hoppers were filled and given an initial agitation to start flow, and were allowed to feed until jammed. Balls were then counted and separated. The hopper was again agitated and allowed to flow, and again the number of balls in this ‘feed burst’ were counted, until the hopper was empty. Numbers below indicate number of agitation cycles and number of balls dropped in each burst. Asterisk indicates final burst count per drop cycle.

Taken together, the VL 200 feeds at the average rate of 8.7 bpb (balls per burst), while the Primo nearly doubles this at a rate of 16.84 bpb.
So, given that 10bps has been proven on the Enmey and that I don't feel constant agitation is viable when playing, the Primo probably wouldn't be for people laying down a heavy stream (ie. full out for 5 seconds). However, if you're only pegging off 5 shots or so per snap it should be "good enough."

This has been my experience with my Tacamo. I've used in with the following: pneumag, Classic Valve with RT on/off, 04 Viking, and a Hammer A. I'm horrible at remembering to charge batteries. With my v35 Halo it was a pain. With my Rotor, it's good enough on batteries it's no big deal. So, yeah, my Tacamo got a bit of usage. Laying down a stream with the Viking, well, it bugged me because I'd have to keep shaking it when laning. Using the others where I just did mostly overzealous snap shots (ie. 3-7 shots), I never noticed that it was a gravity hopper.

Sidenote: the Tacamo is fugly. I got mine over a Primo simply because the sale price let me get 2 Tacamo's for about 60% of the cost of a Primo. That being said, it works.

EDIT:

Primo review where the guy says he gets 8bps out of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpMPwORDoDE
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Last edited by Jaccen; 07-11-2013 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:19 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaccen View Post
The first, "thick" register is the ball shot, the next more sparse register is the bolt hitting the bolt stop, and repeat. That's my guess as to explaining the charts, anyways.
Yeah, that's right.
Well, the sparse waveform happens after I release the trigger. So it's the bolt returning/cycling or whatever goes on in there, I don't know the technical details.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:44 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Sam,

I'd love to see some video to really seal the deal, but if that sound signature came as you described it, then it's probably time for me to drag out my word-eatin' bowl and spoon, and you to go get fitted for a nifty new set of struttin' duds.

That's fast.

But as you say, you could already do 8-9 on a mag, which is more than I (or most others) can do without assistance, and so in this recording it sounds like a bump of 1 bps, which is what I figured to be a reasonable bump for a really good trigger upgrade. That, at least, keeps some of my words off the menu for now.

For the time being, I'll continue to be skeptical about a 3bps increase (that would be 12 bps for you), but what I've just heard is pretty impressive.

Nice.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:31 AM   #39 (permalink)
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I didn't get a video sorry. :P I set my phone on the bench with the sound recorder app. But I promise I didnt fan the trigger. I will get a video sometime and try to clock even faster.
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:23 AM   #40 (permalink)
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