Some SA-8 testing numbers - Page 9

Schmitti · 02-23-2010, 02:06 PM

No he meant heat treat .. like temper... as in heat the entire spring affecting the properties of the metal itself.. the internal molecular structure. A good way to turn a spring to a coil of wire.

E

Mayvik · 02-23-2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpha434

Is yours orange, Mayvick?

In a past life maybe

CovertRssian · 02-24-2010, 12:15 AM

SA-8 Consistency Test #2

Results - Test 2 spreadsheet.

This time I used reball styled re-usable rubber balls. Indoors with 68*F room temperatures. The bore size for the balls is .685.

An interesting observation is, the first shot has always been well under powered. I noticed that the Air Chamber PSI numbers were fairly low when I first loaded the mag. For this reason I an not not including the first shots into the Range calculations.

Mag 2 Number issues: When changing the Air Chamber volume that required me to resetup the velocity. Thus the first couple shots it shot very hot or very low. I didn't think of just simply adjusting the FPS, then continuing to track the data. Thus you will see some missing Mag 2's.

The columns that are in Pink where the first 4 shots that were fired out of the gun. They seem a bit too perfect/too low. I noticed similarly high consistency with the first test. For this reason I redid the first test at the end of all tests. Unfortunately I ran out of CO2 cartridges to redo a second CO2 Full Volume Chamber test.

The first CO2 shots were very good, but it took about 2 seconds for the air chamber to get refilled. After I removed the CO2 cartridge, I found out that it didn't pierce all the way thus causing more constant numbers, but it did take it longer to reload.

Mod Explanations

Reduced Volume Chamber v3
Alright I thought of a new way to reduce the volume, by adding a washer! What this essentially does is divide the air chamber into two sections.

Ballpoint Pen Ball Spring Mod
I used a Ballpoint Pen's spring for this. I cut it down to size of the stock spring. This spring is on the side of the regular with the ball.

Here is the stock spring:

Broken in Spring Main Spring
This is the main spring, it was in the vice off and on for about 32 hours.

Conclusions

Remote
Using a remote line seems to increase consistency by a lot. It just about eliminates hot shots too. I did not get any real hot shots with CO2, but that's because I made sure to keep the gun right side up.

Volume Reducer v3
Looks like it helped a bit, but only with the remote line.

Ball Regulator Spring
As we know the SA-8's use heavier duty Reg Springs that allow us to go to wee high FPS's. From my testing, this seems to be a bit culprit to our hot shots. Using a Ballpoint Pen's spring seemed to help to fix this a bit. Using a T8 spring might do even better.

Pressure Relief Valve
This one is a must only if you plan on using 12 gram CO2 cartridges. Since I plan on using a remote on this anyway, I don't run the risk of liquid CO2 getting into the chamber, thus a pressure relief valve is not a must.

Next on the agenda will be to try the Ballpoint spring for the regulator, reduce the volume in the air chamber via Volume Reducer v3 or v4! Then test with Remote and CO2 (which I need to buy). After finding the best solution for reballs, test with paintballs.

Whee McGee · 02-24-2010, 12:22 AM

Excellent work, man. I'm constantly watching this thread to see what you come up with.

CovertRssian · 02-24-2010, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whee McGee

Excellent work, man. I'm constantly watching this thread to see what you come up with.

Ha

. I wish I could do more, but I'm restricted to how much noise I make before my neighbors complain. But I'll try to get some more testing in tomorrow.

If you look at Mayvik's picture below you will see how the T8 block has a small hole on the back of the block not the bottom. I'm wondering if they are just channeling the air in an L shape or if it is another chamber in there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayvik

Lohman446 · 02-24-2010, 11:16 AM

One favor if you would. When you are all done and have it working well in controlled situations (keeping the gun upright), retest "trying" to get a hot shot through replicating real world scenarios (holster position, shaking, etc).

CovertRssian · 02-24-2010, 11:52 AM

Without a vent valve it will increase pressure, it's a known fact

.

Now T8 owners, do you ever hear your T8 venting after running around and not even shooting one shot?

brycelarson · 02-24-2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CovertRssian

Without a vent valve it will increase pressure, it's a known fact

.

Now T8 owners, do you ever hear your T8 venting after running around and not even shooting one shot?

The T9 we used for the First Strike accuracy tests did. some CO2 carts would vent when the mag was inserted. That was just clamped to a bench upright. might have had the bleed valve set too close to the operating pressure - but it was venting.

MondoMor · 02-24-2010, 01:20 PM

I had two occasions of velocity spikes on the SA-8 after slapping in a mag with new 12gram, and Mayvik noted it burp once on his modded one.

panhead4411 · 02-27-2010, 01:17 PM

One question i have not seen answered, that makes a big difference in my mind is this...

After the results of the holster position pressure test, where the SA 8 hit 550 PSI, wouldn't the same thing happen w/ a T8, only it would just bleed out while you were running, thus, you could possibly empty a cartridge without ever taking a shot?

Thats what i'm wondering at this point, if a lower relief valve would mean wasting a crap ton of co2 while not even using the gun?

02-24-2010, 12:15 AM	#83 (permalink)
CovertRssian Active Member Join Date: Jan 2010	SA-8 Consistency Test #2 Results - Test 2 spreadsheet. This time I used reball styled re-usable rubber balls. Indoors with 68F room temperatures. The bore size for the balls is .685. An interesting observation is, the first shot has always been well under powered. I noticed that the Air Chamber PSI numbers were fairly low when I first loaded the mag. For this reason I an not not including the first shots into the Range calculations. Mag 2 Number issues: When changing the Air Chamber volume that required me to resetup the velocity. Thus the first couple shots it shot very hot or very low. I didn't think of just simply adjusting the FPS, then continuing to track the data. Thus you will see some missing Mag 2's. The columns that are in Pink where the first 4 shots that were fired out of the gun. They seem a bit too perfect/too low. I noticed similarly high consistency with the first test. For this reason I redid the first test at the end of all tests. Unfortunately I ran out of CO2 cartridges to redo a second CO2 Full Volume Chamber test. The first CO2 shots were very good, but it took about 2 seconds for the air chamber to get refilled. After I removed the CO2 cartridge, I found out that it didn't pierce all the way thus causing more constant numbers, but it did take it longer to reload. Mod Explanations* Reduced Volume Chamber v3 Alright I thought of a new way to reduce the volume, by adding a washer! What this essentially does is divide the air chamber into two sections. Ballpoint Pen Ball Spring Mod I used a Ballpoint Pen's spring for this. I cut it down to size of the stock spring. This spring is on the side of the regular with the ball. Here is the stock spring: Broken in Spring Main Spring This is the main spring, it was in the vice off and on for about 32 hours. Conclusions Remote Using a remote line seems to increase consistency by a lot. It just about eliminates hot shots too. I did not get any real hot shots with CO2, but that's because I made sure to keep the gun right side up. Volume Reducer v3 Looks like it helped a bit, but only with the remote line. Ball Regulator Spring As we know the SA-8's use heavier duty Reg Springs that allow us to go to wee high FPS's. From my testing, this seems to be a bit culprit to our hot shots. Using a Ballpoint Pen's spring seemed to help to fix this a bit. Using a T8 spring might do even better. Pressure Relief Valve This one is a must only if you plan on using 12 gram CO2 cartridges. Since I plan on using a remote on this anyway, I don't run the risk of liquid CO2 getting into the chamber, thus a pressure relief valve is not a must. Next on the agenda will be to try the Ballpoint spring for the regulator, reduce the volume in the air chamber via Volume Reducer v3 or v4! Then test with Remote and CO2 (which I need to buy). After finding the best solution for reballs, test with paintballs. Last edited by CovertRssian; 02-24-2010 at 12:24 AM.

02-24-2010, 12:22 AM	#84 (permalink)
Whee McGee SoCal's tango instructor. Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Southern California	Excellent work, man. I'm constantly watching this thread to see what you come up with. __________________ Feedback: AO, The Nation, and here

02-24-2010, 11:16 AM	#86 (permalink)
Lohman446 MCBs armed pacifist Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: West Michigan	One favor if you would. When you are all done and have it working well in controlled situations (keeping the gun upright), retest "trying" to get a hot shot through replicating real world scenarios (holster position, shaking, etc). __________________ "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. Its not." Dr. Seuss "Use peaceful means where they are appropriate; but where they are not appropriate, do not hesitate to resort to more forceful - Thupten Gyatso (the Dalai Lama, 1932) "It is not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters" Coach Paul 'Bear' Bryant. "The ink of scholars is more precious than the blood of martyrs" - Muhammed

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02-23-2010, 02:06 PM	#81 (permalink)
Schmitti Red=Moderator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Albany. NY	No he meant heat treat .. like temper... as in heat the entire spring affecting the properties of the metal itself.. the internal molecular structure. A good way to turn a spring to a coil of wire. E

02-24-2010, 11:52 AM	#87 (permalink)
CovertRssian Active Member Join Date: Jan 2010	Without a vent valve it will increase pressure, it's a known fact . Now T8 owners, do you ever hear your T8 venting after running around and not even shooting one shot?

02-24-2010, 01:20 PM	#89 (permalink)
MondoMor la la la la revolution Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: MN	I had two occasions of velocity spikes on the SA-8 after slapping in a mag with new 12gram, and Mayvik noted it burp once on his modded one.

02-27-2010, 01:17 PM	#90 (permalink)
panhead4411 Active Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Xenia, OH	One question i have not seen answered, that makes a big difference in my mind is this... After the results of the holster position pressure test, where the SA 8 hit 550 PSI, wouldn't the same thing happen w/ a T8, only it would just bleed out while you were running, thus, you could possibly empty a cartridge without ever taking a shot? Thats what i'm wondering at this point, if a lower relief valve would mean wasting a crap ton of co2 while not even using the gun?