Vm-68 Full-auto! - Page 4

Anonymous Coward · 02-04-2008, 02:27 PM

Did someone say magnet? I knew my internet antenna went up.

Can can slow the cycle rate down, but the issue is mounting that large enough of a magnet. K&J sells the perfect size for the lower tube, but the problem is keeping the magnet in place when dealing with pulling properties. You "can" machine magnets, but you "can't" machine magnets. So a very thin holding sleeve would be needed for the magnet to fit into and then mount to the rear screw holes.

I suggest a tension speed latch design over messing with changing the mass of the hammer. Basically you want a secondary latch with a slight resistence against the hammer. When the hammer is blown back it's pushed a certain amount of distance beyond the trigger latch. It's at the peak distance you want a secondary latch that slows down the cycle rate from tension. It's basically a speed bump against the hammer. The more pressure against the hammer the longer the delay. But it a certain point you want the bolt to be free from the latch to hit the valve at regular force.

I think you are on the right direction.

If you want to add mass to the hammer and you have a traditional bolt/spring configuration and not the hammer/spring configuration, then just replace the plastic bolt bumper with lead washers.

Also I wonder how my magnetic bolt would work in your configuration? No I'm not sending it to you.

P4p3Rc1iP · 02-05-2008, 09:58 AM

I don't think keeping a magnet in place would be much of a problem. clamp it to a piece of metal, and it should work. The magnet's own pull force, combined with the clamp would overcome the magnet's pulling force on whatever you're trying to attract with it.

I definetly think a magnet would be a better solution than adjusting the hammer weight. It should me much easier to, as well as allow a much simpler way of adjustment.

Schmitti · 02-05-2008, 10:09 AM

You probably mean glue... not clamp.... no way to fit a clamp on the inside of the gun.

E

Anonymous Coward · 02-05-2008, 04:43 PM

That size of magnet that fits in the lower chamber has a breaking force against steel of 20+lbs, probably around 25lbs. If glue is the route then use two part epoxy and the strongest stuff you can afford.

If you widen the size of the rear lower tube from the rear down the length a few inches and drop a ring spacer and then a disc magnet behind it, might be a place to start. All you want is an impedence to the spring force. Now the spring at full compression offers you a bit of distance to over come through magnetic pull. It CAN be done.

HP_Lovecraft · 02-06-2008, 09:55 AM

just wondering-

I can see how the magnet would slow the forward return of the hammer, but would it also not SPEED UP the rearward travel as it "pull" the hammer, offsetting the time gained on the return?

That was my concern with my "lever" F/A mechanism. Adds delay in my direction, but speeds up during the other.

nick

Anonymous Coward · 02-06-2008, 12:34 PM

I believe that would be the case in a pull only environment. The CO2 force pushing is large enough already so the force by the magnet pulling isn't going to speed it up that much over the CO2 blast. We just want the magnet to slow the cycle just a tinnie-tiny amount to prohibit this choping.

Without a doubt this is diffinently in the "experiment" relam and not the "given" realm. A true tinkering spirit and some great knowledge might come. In experimenting there is no failure.

VM-onster · 02-18-2008, 03:22 AM

So I have cut everything off the hammer and put a new long screw out of the back along with about 25 heavy washers. Then I took JB weld type stuff and made one whole entire hammer. This hammer is a beast and is heavy... The magnets are on the way and so far without the magnets its going fully pretty darn good but just not solid. I only need the magnet to do a very small pull and I will be able to get a QPOD off without a break(I hope)... This will be the ultimate Mule as it kicks and jumps letting off bursts. Cut the barrel to 5' and flipped the guard backwards as a front foregrip and its ready for someone to run into a enemy's bunker letting off noise, co2 clouds and paint...

P4p3Rc1iP · 02-18-2008, 07:46 AM

Awesome, please post a vid when it's done!

Emerald Wolf · 03-06-2008, 12:04 AM

Had you ever thought of making a sort of a set screw adjustable wiper, something like the blish lock on a Thompson? Maybe a pad that pushes against the bottom (say a piece of metal with an oiled felt riveted on) You could have set screws to adjust the preload on the wiper to adjust the delay...

Catchya on the Flip Side.....

Emerald Wolf -- How did SMGs do this? Or did the lack of bolt and sprung magazine mitigate this?

VM-onster · 03-06-2008, 01:16 AM

hmmm...good thought man! that seems like a working idea... Gonna have to look into that.

So update, as I come back in from garage. I now have the VM full auto. So far the best I have done with no breaks is 30 rounds. I have accomplished this by making my hammer the weight of a elephant. The one problem I am having is that sometimes u have to recock it like if you were out of co2. Seems th spring is not pusing the heavy hammer har enough to hit. Any ideas? A new spring the answer, like one that is stronger? Not sure how springs are measured as far as power. any thoughts? The hammer is the same length of a stock just 3 times heavier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emerald Wolf

Had you ever thought of making a sort of a set screw adjustable wiper, something like the blish lock on a Thompson? Maybe a pad that pushes against the bottom (say a piece of metal with an oiled felt riveted on) You could have set screws to adjust the preload on the wiper to adjust the delay...

Catchya on the Flip Side.....

Emerald Wolf -- How did SMGs do this? Or did the lack of bolt and sprung magazine mitigate this?

02-05-2008, 09:58 AM	#32 (permalink)
P4p3Rc1iP Active Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Leeuwarden, The Netherlands Posts: 496	I don't think keeping a magnet in place would be much of a problem. clamp it to a piece of metal, and it should work. The magnet's own pull force, combined with the clamp would overcome the magnet's pulling force on whatever you're trying to attract with it. I definetly think a magnet would be a better solution than adjusting the hammer weight. It should me much easier to, as well as allow a much simpler way of adjustment. __________________ Last edited by P4p3Rc1iP; 02-05-2008 at 10:03 AM.

02-06-2008, 09:55 AM	#35 (permalink)
HP_Lovecraft MCB Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 2,984	just wondering- I can see how the magnet would slow the forward return of the hammer, but would it also not SPEED UP the rearward travel as it "pull" the hammer, offsetting the time gained on the return? That was my concern with my "lever" F/A mechanism. Adds delay in my direction, but speeds up during the other. nick __________________ www.montneel.com My Myspace nonsense "the evidence strongly suggests that neither Billy nor Adam (Smart Parts) could have invented the electronic paintgun" -Garr M. King, U.S. Judge

02-18-2008, 07:46 AM	#38 (permalink)
P4p3Rc1iP Active Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Leeuwarden, The Netherlands Posts: 496	Awesome, please post a vid when it's done! __________________

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02-04-2008, 02:27 PM	#31 (permalink)
Anonymous Coward Active Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 154	Did someone say magnet? I knew my internet antenna went up. Can can slow the cycle rate down, but the issue is mounting that large enough of a magnet. K&J sells the perfect size for the lower tube, but the problem is keeping the magnet in place when dealing with pulling properties. You "can" machine magnets, but you "can't" machine magnets. So a very thin holding sleeve would be needed for the magnet to fit into and then mount to the rear screw holes. I suggest a tension speed latch design over messing with changing the mass of the hammer. Basically you want a secondary latch with a slight resistence against the hammer. When the hammer is blown back it's pushed a certain amount of distance beyond the trigger latch. It's at the peak distance you want a secondary latch that slows down the cycle rate from tension. It's basically a speed bump against the hammer. The more pressure against the hammer the longer the delay. But it a certain point you want the bolt to be free from the latch to hit the valve at regular force. I think you are on the right direction. If you want to add mass to the hammer and you have a traditional bolt/spring configuration and not the hammer/spring configuration, then just replace the plastic bolt bumper with lead washers. Also I wonder how my magnetic bolt would work in your configuration? No I'm not sending it to you.

02-05-2008, 04:43 PM	#34 (permalink)
Anonymous Coward Active Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 154	That size of magnet that fits in the lower chamber has a breaking force against steel of 20+lbs, probably around 25lbs. If glue is the route then use two part epoxy and the strongest stuff you can afford. If you widen the size of the rear lower tube from the rear down the length a few inches and drop a ring spacer and then a disc magnet behind it, might be a place to start. All you want is an impedence to the spring force. Now the spring at full compression offers you a bit of distance to over come through magnetic pull. It CAN be done.

02-06-2008, 12:34 PM	#36 (permalink)
Anonymous Coward Active Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 154	I believe that would be the case in a pull only environment. The CO2 force pushing is large enough already so the force by the magnet pulling isn't going to speed it up that much over the CO2 blast. We just want the magnet to slow the cycle just a tinnie-tiny amount to prohibit this choping. Without a doubt this is diffinently in the "experiment" relam and not the "given" realm. A true tinkering spirit and some great knowledge might come. In experimenting there is no failure.

02-18-2008, 03:22 AM	#37 (permalink)
VM-onster Active Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 270	So I have cut everything off the hammer and put a new long screw out of the back along with about 25 heavy washers. Then I took JB weld type stuff and made one whole entire hammer. This hammer is a beast and is heavy... The magnets are on the way and so far without the magnets its going fully pretty darn good but just not solid. I only need the magnet to do a very small pull and I will be able to get a QPOD off without a break(I hope)... This will be the ultimate Mule as it kicks and jumps letting off bursts. Cut the barrel to 5' and flipped the guard backwards as a front foregrip and its ready for someone to run into a enemy's bunker letting off noise, co2 clouds and paint...

03-06-2008, 12:04 AM	#39 (permalink)
Emerald Wolf Active Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Denver, Colo. Posts: 422	Had you ever thought of making a sort of a set screw adjustable wiper, something like the blish lock on a Thompson? Maybe a pad that pushes against the bottom (say a piece of metal with an oiled felt riveted on) You could have set screws to adjust the preload on the wiper to adjust the delay... Catchya on the Flip Side..... Emerald Wolf -- How did SMGs do this? Or did the lack of bolt and sprung magazine mitigate this?