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Old 03-18-2007, 07:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Lightbulb Allright, essential 'cocker modifications? I want input.

...I'm talking about mods that someone might REALLY benefit from. I was surprised to not find any related material in a couple searches, so I decided to just make a new thread. Now I'm not talking about things like getting a new set of pneumatics or a so-and-so barrel. I'm coming from the standpoint of the stock barrel is pretty good already, and if the stock pneumatics weren't that great, then why would they have used them in the first place? You all know what I mean?

My personal Autococker is likley to benefit from this thread, so I'd like to keep the conversation heading towards the '92-'94 era. It's just a standard serial number 249xx right-hand feed. It has all the stock pneu's and stock internals, along with the stock barrel and the aluminum single-trigger frame. I tend to run it on co2 and I installed an old beavertail when I got the marker. All in all, a nice older Autococker.

I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of the following:

1: Dual wire detents. I would have a professional airsmith like Rainman or Palmers do this modification. As far as my knowledge goes, this would be the best route detente-wise, as the wires will not have the tendancy to get gummed up or need to be opened up and cleaned out like ball detentes do. Also, after the initial installation, the wire is relativley cheap.

2: A trigger job. This is another modification for Palmers. I have read that a good trigger job done by a professional 'smith can be quite the delightful experience.

3: Replace the stock knured cocking rod with a newer, hex-hed style. You know, for obvious reasons. (ease of adjustment)

Some other things I would like to get input on in addition to the above mentioned are: modifying, or replacing the internals (valve, hammer, springs, etc.) with some particular set of somthing else by so-and-so; getting the pneumatics tuned up or internally polished; and if there is a better way to run co2 then just up an ec and then right into the asa.

What do you think?


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Old 03-18-2007, 10:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SuperHiQuality87 View Post
1: Dual wire detents. I would have a professional airsmith like Rainman or Palmers do this modification.
I have a 1992 autococker, and the only changes that I made were palmers regs (so that the inline and lpr would be externally adjustable), and I had a local shop drill a hole for a standard ball bearing detent, which totally solved double feeds. Oh, and a Lapco bigshot barrel.

Took it to the field today for the first time (!!!), and it seeme to shoot great.

Good luck!


EDIT: Also, I cleaned and polished all the moving parts I could find with Brasso, and I had it shooting fast enough for me.
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Old 03-19-2007, 08:53 AM   #3 (permalink)
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You will definitely need a detente. I'm also a fan of wire detentes, but I'm not sure how necessary two are. If you're leaving it as a Cocker and not turning it into a Sniper, I'd also look into swapping out the original Sheridan hammer kit for the newer-style Nelson hammer kit (and drilling the hammer lug adjustment hole through the sightrail). I'd also recommend a good Rock regulator for ease of adjustment. 45 Frames are also nice, but everything above and beyond detentes, softer springs, and an adjustable LPR takes away from the originality of it and are more luxury items than necessities (IMHO).

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Old 03-19-2007, 10:03 AM   #4 (permalink)
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The stock lpr regs were the only major down fall of the pneumatics package on the stock cockers. The first adjustable ones had to range what so ever. They went from not enough to blown hoses in a quarter turn. The replacement sledge hammers were tolerable but did not allow adjusting unless taken apart. The later adjustable regs are pretty good but by then most people went to aftermarket ones anyway. I would say that if I could only change one thing it would be the LPR. I have never had a problem with any stock cocker ram. By and large.. a ram is a ram is a ram. The stock main regulator is actually a very reliable one. I still run a few stock WGP regs on my snipers and other then not being able to adjust them (unless you want to buy an aftermarket cap) they are reliable.

On very early cockers you will find the 3 way has retaining clips on the end caps. These models have LONG throws and make having a nice frame and trigger job worthless. One might also consider a modern short throw 3 way. This is completely preference because the older ones can be set up just fine. I find though that more people chop because of the long throw then it is worth. Sooner or later you will want the piece of mind.

I am not a fan of the wire nubbing anti doubles just because they can be hard to find at times. The drilled ball and spring versions are found everywhere.
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Old 03-19-2007, 10:50 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Unless the hammer is starting to show signs of wear, the only internals I would buy is a spring it. That way you can balence the springs for the velocity you want with CO2. The older stock valves are made to work with CO2.

I love the stock WGP HPRs. They are consistant and work well with CO2. They are adjustable with a flat head if you take the bottom fitting off.

With that I would add a full size Rock regulator. Adjustable LPRs can really cut down on recoil, and since you are using CO2 a Rock is your best bet. If you are looking to stay with the "old school" look you night also try finding a stock 2k3 3-way and ram. Both can be found for cheap abd would make a niced trigger job by Plamers worth it. If you do get it timed by Palmers, consider one of their trigger shoes with a stop.

One essential thing you want is a threaded timing rod. It will make timing A LOT easier.

I have a few of these items that I would let go for cheap (a little more than shipping). PM me if you are interested.
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Old 03-19-2007, 10:58 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I love the stock WGP HPRs. They are consistant and work well with CO2. They are adjustable with a flat head if you take the bottom fitting off.
I've heard nothing but good things about the stock WGP inline regs, but isn't it a pain to keep taking the fitting on and off and hoping that the pressure is adjusted correctly?
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Old 03-19-2007, 12:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Dual wire detents aren't really necessary, and I rarely have trouble with standard detents.

Palmers Pneumatics and regulators are fantastic upgrades. Don't know about sending it off for a trigger job, I do all my work, well, myself.
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Old 03-19-2007, 12:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
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There's no real magic to trigger jobs...I mean, PPS will do a great job if you send it to them, but you can get almost the same results with a little time & elbow grease. Start with a decent trigger frame - something with set screws to limit trigger play and travel. Then, polish the hell out of your trigger plate & sear - get all of the contact points as smooth as possible. Then put it together and play with springs to find the right combination - that is, the one that feels right to you. Personally, I like a crisp, slightly heavy, but very smooth pull. My current 'Cocker is set up with a stock composite frame, an Extreme Rage roller trigger/sear set and stock springs. I've found the ER triggers to very smooth (thanks to the rollers along the top), but the sears get chewed up fairly quickly. When the current one wears out (probably sometime this season), I'll probably just throw a polished stock sear in there. The trigger plates don't take to polishing very well, though (they're made of some kind of sintered metal, I think, which tends to just grind down when you try to polish it), so I might switch back to the stock plate as well. Really, after a really good polishing, the stock bits are pretty good.

One thing I really miss is the PPS "Stop" trigger shoe that went out on the 'Cocker I sold to Murph (which I hope he eventually got straightened out ). I believe they stopped making them because so many folks switched over to swing or e-triggers. But, if you can find one, they are the absolute #1 improvement you can make to an otherwise stock trigger setup. I was amazed at how much difference such a simple add-on could make.
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Old 03-19-2007, 10:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
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What do you guys mean by "trigger jobs"? I've had a couple of my own slider frames apart and one of them had the beginnings of warts in the chrome. On that one I carefully stoned off the chrome back to the steel and then polished it with rubbing and then polishing compound to a mirror finish but leaving some of the stone's grooving in place to act as grease holding channels. It's as slick as the new ANS sliders I have now.

The only other "trigger job" thing I can think of is to ensure that the lower side of the slider is totally parallel with teh upper side so the play adjustment screws are not loose or jam at some points.

And what does this "stop trigger shoe" look like or what is it? A set screw to limit the back travel?

Perspiring minds need to know...
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Old 03-19-2007, 10:37 PM   #10 (permalink)
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It was a brass (with nickel option) trigger show that Palmer made. It had a trigger stop screw on one side of the trigger plate. You could adjust what point it hits the frame in the pull. I wish I would have gotten one before they stopped making them...
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