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Old 01-06-2007, 03:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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If you would be interested in an expansion chamber send me a PM. I have one around here that I am not using as well as an anti-siphon tube
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Old 01-06-2007, 03:54 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
Druid, that's a great write up.

If I may though I'd really suggest you alter the instructions to use one of the following two options for clamping the bottle. Both suggestions are based on the idea that most folks don't realize just how easy it is to crush the tank and if the loctite is still holding and making the tank skid in the jaws I just KNOW that they'll tighten the thing up and risk some damage.

A- use a strap wrench instead of the vise.

B- Use the vise as in your method but start with cinching down two or three SS hose clamps quite tightly first with all the screws lined up. Then pinch it LIGHTLY in the vise using the padding such that the hose clamp screws are bearing on the jaw that will hold the tank from rotating. If the tank still wants to slip then move one of the clamps so the screw fits UNDER the other jaw so it's trapped between the vise jaws and can't move.
A- I would tend to agree with you but I ran into trouble with the strap wrench...it broke when I tried to use it this way. Brand new, it grabbed fine but the torque needed to turn the valve out tore the wrench-strap in half. Defect in the wrench? Possibly but not likely. I give a new tool a good inspection before I buy it and I never go cheap so that left me with the vice method which works just fine if you are careful.
B- I can see your point about the hose clamps but I made rubber jaw covers out of an old car tire and they work very well. I used cardboard in my pics because I couldn't get clear pics of the rubber and just threw the cardboard in for visual effect.

The reason many people do their own tanks is to reduce the cost of what a shop would charge. I know hose clamps are only a few more dollars but it starts to negate saving money and sometimes people get finicky about a few dollars. Typically, a person only has a few tanks and once they are done antisiphoning them, they don't get anymore before they end up going to HPA. In that respect, they'd whine about wasting the $5 on the hose clamps...lol...

All in all, my method and pictorial has been well accepted, tried and true. I;'ve never had a failure in any of my tanks and it boils down to "operator error" if the tank gets crushed because the operator didn't pad the vice jaws properly/well enough or didn't watch what he was doing. You are right about the hose clamps though, but like I said I've done dozens of tanks and never had a problem (except for a catalina tank that the valve's wrench pads rounded over and I had to replace the tank). Since I antisiphon tanks all the time (for myself and friends) I'll be getting the hose clamps to make my job easier. The cost of the clamps is miniscule compared to a ruptured tank from vice damage...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fattie View Post
im looking for a little of each , accuracy,speed and efficency. but i probaly wont be able to get all 3. all the pnuematics are stock. im really not interested in changing my bolt, becuase with most other bolts youve got that ugly pin. with mine there isnt one. ill start looking for a nice barrel. but moneys tight this time a year.

i know the difficulties of changing a valve. i put the on/off valve on my tank myself a few years ago and have had no issues. it was also pretty easy to take off.
You can get all three but the time and money you need to invest (and test) the products can kill yer paycheck....lol. I know what you mean about money this time of year but I only mentioned replacing the bolt because the Lightening is higher flowing and lighter. Paint-to-bore matching a barrel helps reduce wasted air and lighter/higher flowing means you can lower operating pressures without necessarily increasing air volume. That includes your back-block, timing rod, bolt and cocking rod...making the things lighter means less air is needed to move them.

To be honest, you don't have to get a Stab (but it is a great reg)...you can use a Bob Long Torp (designed for CO2/Cockers) that will work nicely too (just not as well as the Stab).

Bore-matching, higher flowing valves and barbs, lighter components, smoother operating pneumatics - all play a part in how efficient you can make your marker. It's just a lot of money, time and energy to get it where you want it. QEVs are supposed to make a bit of difference but I never investigated their use in a mech-cocker setting, so I can't help you there.
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Last edited by druid; 01-06-2007 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 01-06-2007, 04:19 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by druid View Post
Set your input PSI to about 425/450 and micromanage your fps at the LPR.
Since the LPR only affects how much air gets to the pneumatics (or, more accurately, the pressure of that air), it has no effect on velocity. Cycle speed, yes, but fps, no. Maybe you meant use the IVG to adjust the velocity? Assuming the guts are stock, then 400-450 should be in the ballpark, but I personally prefer to "sweetspot" my regs:

1. Set the IVG right in the middle of it's travel and lower the HPR pressure as low as it'll go
2. Turn up the HPR about 1 turn at a time (take at least 5-10 shots at each step of the adjustment)
3. When the velocity stops increasing and either levels out or starts to drop, you've reached the "sweetspot" for your gun
4. Use the IVG to adjust the velocity to a safe and legal range and you shouldn't need to touch the HPR again unless there's a sever climactic change (I usually have to go through this twice a year since the weather here in PA swings like a pendulum. The LPR, once set, will very rarely need to be adjusted.)

With the HPR adjusted this way, your gun is operating as efficiently as it can with the hardware it's got.

PS: Fattie, get yourself a PPS stab. They're pricier than some others, but they're just about the best out there. If you're going to use CO2, stabs will take it no problem. The only other reg I'd suggest for CO2 use is a AA Black Ice (not made anymore, so finding one may be tough, but when you find one, it'll likely be less than even a used stab...often <$50).
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Last edited by Wycke; 01-06-2007 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 01-06-2007, 04:47 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wycke View Post
Since the LPR only affects how much air gets to the pneumatics (or, more accurately, the pressure of that air), it has no effect on velocity. Cycle speed, yes, but fps, no. Maybe you meant use the IVG to adjust the velocity? Assuming the guts are stock, then 400-450 should be in the ballpark, but I personally prefer to "sweetspot" my regs:

BAH.........yer right. I was picturing the back of the marker but typed LPR instead...I'll fix that in a second
EDIT: FIXED
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Old 01-06-2007, 05:36 PM   #15 (permalink)
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thanks for the help. i just got my co2 filled and screwed it into my v/a and it was shooting pretty sweet. pretty fast but i did notice a little bir of blowback comign out my feedneck. and druid you mention a bob ong torpedo will work ? well it just so happens i have one on my spyder. but ive heard mixed opinions about it and co2 , shooting my spyder wit hthe torp it really didnt shoot very well.
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Old 01-07-2007, 02:07 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I use an AIM Pyro reg which is internally, identical to the Torp. I had Torps on my Spyders and they worked just fine. It's possible that yours either needs to be broken in or needs a rebuild kit.

Here's the AIM Pyro on my Cocker. It's a very nice reg and like I said...internally, it's identical (takes a Torp rebuild kit)...




As for you installing your bottle directly into the VA...I'd caution against that. The gas leaves the bottle at ~900 psi and I'd be hard-pressed to believe the LPR, 3 way and ram will take that kind of unregulated pressure for too long.
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Old 01-10-2007, 05:20 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Didn't some of the early cockers use vertical bottles feeding straight into the VA?
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Old 01-14-2007, 07:40 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Yes. You can plug a CO2 tank directly into the gun, but often the pressure is too much for the valve/spring combo so you get low velocity. The LPR is made to handle high pressure (up to 1000psi often) and the ram and 4-way is downstream of the LPR so they only get a little over 100psi so there is no danger of blowing out the hoses or ram.
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