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How to Tune a Gen-E Matrix

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    #16
    Anyone know what slick honey is made from? I'd like to look up the TDS.
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      #17
      Originally posted by Brokeass_baller View Post
      Anyone know what slick honey is made from? I'd like to look up the TDS.
      I found this with a 5 second Google search: https://buzzysusa.com/docs/SDS-Slick-Honey-2015.pdf

      Comment


      #18
      Hi the_matrix_guy I needs ya help again !

      I regreased my matrix (with exalt hater sauce), and was doing some test firing after , slowly increasing the LPR, and a bad leak developed after 6 or 7 dry fires. The leak is straight down the bolt center. I degassed the gun, and turned it off, and now as soon as the gun is gassed up, the same leak occurs , straight down the bolt. The bolt is the back position

      I'm assuming an oring or more is bad. Do you have intuition which oring (s) have failed?

      or could it be a failed solenoid?

      Cheers!

      M7

      '96 RF Mini Cocker, '95 RF Autococker, Trilogy SF Autococker (mech'ed) , 68-Automag Classic, Banzai Splash Minimag, Gen-E Matrix, Shoebox Shocker 4x4, Warp Feed Rainmaker, Montneel Z-1, Tippmann Pro-Carbine, Tippmann Mini-Lite, Tippmann Model-98, Tippmann SL-68II , Tippmann 68-Special, Spyder .50 cal Opus/Opus-A , Liquid CO2 Spyder Victor II , Tippmann .50 Cal Cronus , Gog Enmey .50 cal , Tippmann Vert ASA 68-Carbine

      Meleager7 Feedback: https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/b...ager7-feedback

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      • Jordan

        Jordan

        commented
        Editing a comment
        Inner tophat oring? Where's the air coming from, bolt face or around the bolt?

      • Meleager7

        Meleager7

        commented
        Editing a comment
        Figured it out, it was the inner 13/70 oring.....see pictured below. It had become unseated. Since I had the spool all apart , i replaced the oring with new and leak went away. BUT....I still cannot tune this d#mn matrix for the life of me!!! The first shot drop off off is still terrible.

      #19
      Found the leak, 13/70 oring had become unseated. Replaced it , and leak was resolved.

      But I still cannot tune this bloody gun !

      even with the better grease (hater vs. sp dow 33 ) turning the LPR all the way in causes the gun to stop shooting. If I find that spot on the LPR just before the gun cease operation, no adjustment high or low on the Main Reg will resolve the first shot drop off. First shot is super low around 100fps, then 2nd shot climbs higher, and the 3rd shot is the velocity where the gun holds during rapid fire.

      i looked at LCD board settings, and front pulse is 12 and back pulse is 35 . I have no idea what these mean, and they seem to be locked settings. Can futzing around with these settings help with the first , 2nd shot drop off?

      Urggghhhhhhhh!!!!

      Help!







      '96 RF Mini Cocker, '95 RF Autococker, Trilogy SF Autococker (mech'ed) , 68-Automag Classic, Banzai Splash Minimag, Gen-E Matrix, Shoebox Shocker 4x4, Warp Feed Rainmaker, Montneel Z-1, Tippmann Pro-Carbine, Tippmann Mini-Lite, Tippmann Model-98, Tippmann SL-68II , Tippmann 68-Special, Spyder .50 cal Opus/Opus-A , Liquid CO2 Spyder Victor II , Tippmann .50 Cal Cronus , Gog Enmey .50 cal , Tippmann Vert ASA 68-Carbine

      Meleager7 Feedback: https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/b...ager7-feedback

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        #20
        that almost sounds like something is wrong with the LPR.. and not having one to switch to would make that difficult to diagnose/troubleshoot.

        also, do you have a guage to check your HPR for creeping?

        both of those regs on your gun have seats that dont age well, and that gun is at least old enough to drive a car

        have you checked the body tube for debris?

        also, you can, very carefully, take the solenoid apart and clean/lube the core

        Comment


        • Meleager7

          Meleager7

          commented
          Editing a comment
          it has crossed my mind to seek brand new parts from Palmers and replace both regs....... but i'm pretty inexperienced with the Matrix, so I am hoping the issue is just something i have yet to learn about.....like those pulse settings.

          Body is clear of debris and I triple checked the diagram above that I had all the piece assembled correctly. I'd assume if I had pieces backwards, the gun would have more problems.....
          Last edited by Meleager7; 08-14-2021, 04:26 PM.

        • Tracker

          Tracker

          commented
          Editing a comment
          oh that does remind me, the "beer can" part (part with 2 o-rings right behind the forward piece (front wall) CAN be put in backward, and it will cause a lot of weirdness, (ruined a tourney for me back in the day) theres 4 slots on one side and 2 slots in the other, the 2 slots should be facing the front wall

          not saying thats your issue here, but its bit me in the ass before at the worst possible time, so i always try and remember to pass on that lesson i learned

        • Meleager7

          Meleager7

          commented
          Editing a comment
          wow, i might have the beer can part backwards. Is the ZDSPB diagram that I used above as a guide, showing the wrong direction for that part? i think it might be!

        #21
        If it's the Dye LPR I think the adjustment is backwards. Try backing out the adjuster to get higher LPR pressure. You want the pressure fairly high to start and then back down. Too low a pressure would cause first shot drop off like you're seeing to be amplified. Others have differing opinions but the PBC lpr on the Gen-E and the bullet LPR that comes on the stock DM3's are just fine regs. The AKA reg is a huge upgrade just in quality but I didn't see any tangible difference. I would NOT buy a Palmers LPR for the matrix as it blocks the breech from being removed so you have to pull the LPR to get the breech off. Plus I'm just not that big on Palmers regs anyway. AKA regs are head and shoulders above the Palmer equivalents for only a small amount more money.

        The LCD board is "locked" and you have to pull the left grip panel off and press a button on the board to unlock the settings for adjustment. Turning the board off and back on will lock the settings again. Those settings are a decent starting place though.

        *edit* just remembering I had a similar issue on my Gen-E matrix where the first shot would barely fire and then it would start to work okay then if I stopped shooting for a second it would shoot very low. Turned out to be the solenoid was full of dried up old grease and needed to be cleaned out. If you up the dwell to 20 and the condition improves it might be a sticky solenoid. On the other hand the stock dwell on my GenE was 35 forward and it still did it so that might not help.

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          #22
          Tracker , you're a genius! that beer can piece (called the Cylinder as per DM3 manual) was backwards! i flipped around and re-tested and the first shot drop off issue is fixed. i was able to turn my main reg down a lot too. i'm pretty happy that i don't seem to have damaged anything.

          this also means that zdspb diagram above is wrong in terms of displaying the orientation of that part. Future Matrix newbs like me should follow official matrix vendor guides, and maybe only keep the zdspb diagram for the orings specs
          '96 RF Mini Cocker, '95 RF Autococker, Trilogy SF Autococker (mech'ed) , 68-Automag Classic, Banzai Splash Minimag, Gen-E Matrix, Shoebox Shocker 4x4, Warp Feed Rainmaker, Montneel Z-1, Tippmann Pro-Carbine, Tippmann Mini-Lite, Tippmann Model-98, Tippmann SL-68II , Tippmann 68-Special, Spyder .50 cal Opus/Opus-A , Liquid CO2 Spyder Victor II , Tippmann .50 Cal Cronus , Gog Enmey .50 cal , Tippmann Vert ASA 68-Carbine

          Meleager7 Feedback: https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/b...ager7-feedback

          Comment


            #23
            Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20210814-121727_Drive.jpg
Views:	71
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ID:	161786 I grabbed this screenshot from the Dye manual... it's a potential troubleshooting guide AND it tells you what way everything goes. I did the same thing on mine and had the beer can in backwards after I greased it.

            Ions and Minis are so much easier to work on.
            And God turned to Gabriel and said: “I shall create a land called Canada of outstanding natural beauty, with majestic mountains soaring with eagles, sparkling lakes abundant with bass and trout, forests full of elk and moose, and rivers stocked with salmon. I shall make the land rich in oil so the inhabitants prosper and call them Canadians, and they shall be praised as the friendliest of all people.”

            “But Lord,” asked Gabriel, “Is this not too generous to these Canadians?”

            And God replied, “Just wait and see the neighbors I shall inflict upon them."

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            • Meleager7

              Meleager7

              commented
              Editing a comment
              that's a good idea to cap off this thread with the proper Bolt Diagram!

              If I had found the proper diagram when I first started trying to tune my Matrix , I would likely have never needed this thread to begin with! But i am pretty happy its resolved, because I can add the Matrix back to the rotation for Wasaga!
              Last edited by Meleager7; 08-15-2021, 02:43 PM.

            #24
            Originally posted by Meleager7 View Post
            Tracker , you're a genius! that beer can piece (called the Cylinder as per DM3 manual) was backwards! i flipped around and re-tested and the first shot drop off issue is fixed. i was able to turn my main reg down a lot too. i'm pretty happy that i don't seem to have damaged anything.

            this also means that zdspb diagram above is wrong in terms of displaying the orientation of that part. Future Matrix newbs like me should follow official matrix vendor guides, and maybe only keep the zdspb diagram for the orings specs
            that was a shitty lesson i learned that day.. but i'm glad that it eventually came back around to be a good one

            glad that got you fixed up

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