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Can you use a paintball tank and a scuba regulator together?

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    Can you use a paintball tank and a scuba regulator together?

    So I was wondering if it would make any sense to use a paintball tank connected to a scuba regulator to clean the pool or for short diving in general.
    Is the working pressure of the scuba regulator close to the one the paintball tank provides or it will break something? Is it even safe to try to do it?

    #2
    I am not sure how you could get a paintball tank to screw into a scuba regulator, the first stage looks like it is larger than a paintball regulator. if it fits i do not see a reason it would not work but I do not scuba dive and only own a scuba tank to fill my other tanks.
    https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/b...ers-s-feedback

    Comment


      #3
      Scuba tank are at 3000 psi for most of them (some of them, steel tank I think are at 2600psi). This is why you can fill your paintball tank with scuba tank directly at the valve.
      Scuba first stage regulator (the one you connect to the tank is set around 120 psi).
      Last edited by Alexndl; 09-22-2022, 11:57 AM.

      Comment


        #4
        How big, deep and what's growing or drop in that you need a tank to clean it.

        Also would you not need to make sure the tanks being refilled are done with a breathable air quality.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by macaco View Post
          So I was wondering if it would make any sense to use a paintball tank connected to a scuba regulator to clean the pool or for short diving in general.
          Is the working pressure of the scuba regulator close to the one the paintball tank provides or it will break something? Is it even safe to try to do it?
          -First off, I are not a certified diver, etc.

          What you're referring to is generally called a "pony bottle", usually kept as reserve air for a diver. It's probably possible to get a proper SCUBA valve that will screw into a paintball tank (which is just a generic HPA tank sold under a paintball trade name. The specs are the same.)

          I would not want to risk breathing air from a "shoebox" or typical Chinese HP compressor, which means you'd need to get it properly filled at a dive shop. If not opened, cleaned out, and then filled.

          After that, yes, it should be a simple matter of connecting a standard SCUBA regulator, and go diving. Just keep in mind a typical paintball tank is tiny- I don't really know, but I'd wager you might have maybe five or six minutes at most of breathing time.

          A full size tank gives you about 45 minutes with some reserve, but that's 80 cubic feet. That's roughly 138K cubic inches, or nominally 3K ci per minute of air. So a 90 ci paintball tank would give you roughly twenty seconds? That doesn't sound right... Let's see.. a tiny "pony" bottle is 6 cubic feet- that's nominally 10K ci, or ten times that of a paintball tank?

          I'm probably screwing up my math, the volumes or even physics in general, here somewhere, so don't take my word for it.

          But either way, I suspect you'd get very little underwater time.

          On the other hand, a ready-to-go 40 CF tank, with valve, can be had for about $250. That's roughly half the size of a standard dive tank, which should give you an easy 20 minutes of underwater time.

          That's the way I'd go if I had a pool.

          Doc.
          Doc's Machine & Airsmith Services: Creating the Strange and Wonderful since 1998!
          The Whiteboard: Daily, occasionally paintball-related webcomic mayhem!
          Paintball in the Movies!

          Comment


          • Alexndl

            Alexndl

            commented
            Editing a comment
            The time that you have on a tand depend on several factor like your breathing speed (stress level) and you dept under water

            At 33 feet deep you will roughly consume a regular 80 cubic feet tank at 3000 psi in around 45 min to 65 min. At sea level the same tank will last twice as long because the air you breath need to be at the same pressure as the one your body is exposed to.
            You can do a quick calculation with smaller tank to have an idea.

          • DocsMachine

            DocsMachine

            commented
            Editing a comment
            That's about what I read when I looked up some numbers. The OP was talking about "cleaning a pool", so I didn't figure depth, or really, stress, would have been that big an issue.
            Doc.

          #6
          Cleaning the pool was just an example here. I was just wondering if that was possible....
          So the scuba regulator is 120 psi... afaik the paintball regulator is ~600-800 psi. Something will break

          Comment


          • Alexndl

            Alexndl

            commented
            Editing a comment
            Scuba regulator work with two stages.
            First stage take your tank pressure from 3kpsi to roughly 120psi and your second stage regulator (the one with the mouth piece) will adjust automatically to the pressure you are at (depending on how deep you are under water).

            I would not recommend using a paintball tank as a breathing tank.
            I would use a scuba tank to shoot painbtall but not a paintball tank to go diving

          #7
          Originally posted by DocsMachine View Post

          -First off, I are not a certified diver, etc.

          What you're referring to is generally called a "pony bottle", usually kept as reserve air for a diver. It's probably possible to get a proper SCUBA valve that will screw into a paintball tank (which is just a generic HPA tank sold under a paintball trade name. The specs are the same.)

          I would not want to risk breathing air from a "shoebox" or typical Chinese HP compressor, which means you'd need to get it properly filled at a dive shop. If not opened, cleaned out, and then filled.

          After that, yes, it should be a simple matter of connecting a standard SCUBA regulator, and go diving. Just keep in mind a typical paintball tank is tiny- I don't really know, but I'd wager you might have maybe five or six minutes at most of breathing time.

          A full size tank gives you about 45 minutes with some reserve, but that's 80 cubic feet. That's roughly 138K cubic inches, or nominally 3K ci per minute of air. So a 90 ci paintball tank would give you roughly twenty seconds? That doesn't sound right... Let's see.. a tiny "pony" bottle is 6 cubic feet- that's nominally 10K ci, or ten times that of a paintball tank?

          I'm probably screwing up my math, the volumes or even physics in general, here somewhere, so don't take my word for it.

          But either way, I suspect you'd get very little underwater time.

          On the other hand, a ready-to-go 40 CF tank, with valve, can be had for about $250. That's roughly half the size of a standard dive tank, which should give you an easy 20 minutes of underwater time.

          That's the way I'd go if I had a pool.

          Doc.
          Thanks Doc, this is the kind of answer I was looking for.

          Comment


            #8
            Pony bottle are the most dangerous scuba equipment out there ... they hurt more people than then help!
            As @doc said, not certified = don't mess with scuba, it will kill you if you screw up!

            Air quality is going to be the big issue here, the compressor needs to be clean for consumable air, and you need to get proper air intake, usually scuba compressor pulls the air far away from teh compressor ...

            in term of pressure, 2.6K bottle are antique, most tanks are 3K or 3.2K, you will find some 4.5K CF tank for specialize techs, but those are super rare ...
            Scuba first stage will drop to 120-300 PSI, and the second stage will drop to just bellow the pressure its located at, the whole point is to adjust the output pressure in function of the water pressure present.

            Bottom line: dont do it, and dont mix "industrial" air and "consumable/medical" air!

            Ive seen people get hurt by doing stupid stuff with scuba gear, dont be one of them.

            Ps: certified rescue diver here ...
            Love my brass ... Love my SSR ... Hard choices ...

            XEMON's phantom double sided feed

            Keep your ATS going: Project rATS 2.0
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            Comment


            • Memornix

              Memornix

              commented
              Editing a comment
              Everything said here is true. Air quality is a big one. We all know that we don't oil our paintball tanks but that doesn't mean the air from the compressor is clean and breathing tiny bits of atomized oil doesn't sound fun. This is especially true with the comment of using a household compressor with usually has lots of crud.

              Yes, 4500psi is a thing in scuba, so no problems there.

            • Alexndl

              Alexndl

              commented
              Editing a comment
              Its been more than 10 year since my last scuba dive but I did not knew steel LP tank at 2600 psi was considered antique... lol
              Are tank with reserve lever still used šŸ¤£
              Air quality is indeed very important, I know some shop air that tasted weird after your dive (I stop using that shop after)
              I also agree pony tank need to be used only by trained diver that know what to expect from them.

            • XEMON

              XEMON

              commented
              Editing a comment
              2600psi tank have not been manufactured in about 40+ years ... But they are thicker than 3k so they are thought after for caving (no worries about banging it on the wall) and it used to be common to fill them to 3.5K (no reasonable shop would do it anymore ... šŸ˜…)

              The reserve is only on the valve, I personally like it on secondary, but they're super uncommon anymore ...

              I've used my mom fenzy for fun but the tanks (rockets) are way dangerous and sank several dive boats before they got banned šŸ¤£

            #9
            The ones Iā€™m familiar with from military water survival training are the HEED systems. Iā€™m not sure what threads they have, but the bottles look just like a 13ci bottle. They are a bit cost prohibitive though.

            https://www.ssishoppingcart.com/HEED...ze-_p_128.html

            Comment


              #10
              Having only been actual SCUBA diving twice- and a long time ago- I have more experience with Scott Air-paks, often referred to as "escape packs".

              One plant I briefly worked at, years ago, made (among other things) anhydrous ammonia. A leak would rapidly make an area uninhabitable, so there were these air packs located where necessary. And as contractors, we were required to train and use them, for familiarity- you might only have a few seconds to get one on, so you better know what you're doing.

              This was well before my paintball career, but as I recall, the tanks were... maybe as big as 114 tank size? Definitely not as huge as a full SCUBA tank, but not as small as a typical 68.

              And, as I recall, a full tank was only good for something like three to five minutes. You were supposed to get it on, and the F out of Dodge. Or, help your buddy get his on as well, then you both get out of Dodge. IE, don't stick around and try to collect your tools or search for others, etc. That air goes away in a hurry in a panic situation.

              Thankfully I never had to actually use one- that is, during an actual leak or accident, etc.- but working in certain places in there, you'd get enough of a solid whiff of ammonia on occasion, that you tended to pay attention to where the masks were.

              Doc.
              Doc's Machine & Airsmith Services: Creating the Strange and Wonderful since 1998!
              The Whiteboard: Daily, occasionally paintball-related webcomic mayhem!
              Paintball in the Movies!

              Comment


              • XEMON

                XEMON

                commented
                Editing a comment
                This is the original use for those tiny tanks, and they do save life when used for what they were designed ... But for scuba they'll hurt you ... Hold your breath at 40ft (after inhaling on a tank) and you go pignatta before you reach the surface ...

              • Grendel

                Grendel

                commented
                Editing a comment
                That is why as a submariner we were taught when we exited the sub underwater through the "emergency escape hatch" (really an airlock) that once you started ascending you constantly exhaled going "ho, ho, ho...." all the way to the surface. This is to prevent rupturing your lungs.

              • Seajay

                Seajay

                commented
                Editing a comment
                That only applies to pressurized air.. and when at depth. You take a higher volume of air at lower depths, so when you surface it expands as the pressure lowers.
                If it's just regular air you'll be fine.

              #11
              1.7 cu ft of air provides about 32 normal breaths

              Attached Files

              Comment


                #12
                Originally posted by XEMON View Post
                Pony bottle are the most dangerous scuba equipment out there ... they hurt more people than then help!
                As @doc said, not certified = don't mess with scuba, it will kill you if you screw up!

                Air quality is going to be the big issue here, the compressor needs to be clean for consumable air, and you need to get proper air intake, usually scuba compressor pulls the air far away from teh compressor ...

                in term of pressure, 2.6K bottle are antique, most tanks are 3K or 3.2K, you will find some 4.5K CF tank for specialize techs, but those are super rare ...
                Scuba first stage will drop to 120-300 PSI, and the second stage will drop to just bellow the pressure its located at, the whole point is to adjust the output pressure in function of the water pressure present.

                Bottom line: dont do it, and dont mix "industrial" air and "consumable/medical" air!

                Ive seen people get hurt by doing stupid stuff with scuba gear, dont be one of them.

                Ps: certified rescue diver here ...
                Thank you, curiosity is satisfied.

                So bottom line, yes it could be done, but is a stupid ass idea. Gotcha.

                Comment


                • XEMON

                  XEMON

                  commented
                  Editing a comment
                  You got it šŸ˜

                  Now, if you are interested in scuba you should give it a go. It's amazing, like going to a different world ... But be smart (and safe) and go to a dive shop with proper equipment and trained instructors.

                • bellicose

                  bellicose

                  commented
                  Editing a comment
                  As a diver, I leave all equipment that can fail and kill me to the dive shops for rental. Home made isn't worth the price. Rental of a tank is pretty affordable for a weekend.

                #13
                Just to clarify... an 80 cubic foot tank is not actually that big... or it would be the size of a fridge. It's SCF, so you need to divide by 3000 to convert to "paintball size". So a 68ci bottle at 4.5k is about 12 ft^3 in Scuba speak.

                But all the air quality, safety, etc is still rather important. Just know that, if you're in a burning house, that paintball tank has enough air to get you to the street safely.
                Feedback: https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/b...eedback-thread

                Comment


                • XEMON

                  XEMON

                  commented
                  Editing a comment
                  And again, this at atmospheric ambient pressure ... Go to 10m (~30 ft) where you have ~2atm of ambient pressure and you now only have half of that volume available ...

                • flyweightnate

                  flyweightnate

                  commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Now you've got me curious... suppose I breathe 20 times a minute on the surface, so I still need to breathe 20v times a minute if the air is twice as dense?

                • XEMON

                  XEMON

                  commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Yes, the volume of air inhale doesn't change with depth.
                  The air is more dense, so there is more oxygen and nitrogen getting dissolved in the blood.
                  Keep in mind dissolved oxygen is not available to the tissue, only oxygen carried by red blood cell is available for the tissues.
                  When scuba, decompression problem are coming from those extra gases dissolved in the blood, mainly nitrogen. When it's dissolved, it needs time to get release otherwise you'll end up with nitrogen bubble forming in your blood stream, which will be detected by white blood cell as "foreign bodies" and cause a clot.
                  To prevent the dissolved nitrogen from turning into gas you have to do decompression table: you stay at specific depth for specific times determined by how long you stay how deep.
                  Those can be shorten if you use nitrox (air enriched in oxygen) but you cannot go as deep because you are at risk of axygen contamination (too much oxygen under too much pressure "burn" your cells) or trimix/heliox where you replace some of that nitrogen with other gases that come out of dissolved state faster, mainly heliom.
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