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Phantom Frame Selection

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    Phantom Frame Selection

    I currently run the standard CCI Phantom 45* frame on my phantom and haven't had any issues. I also have an Apocalypse K frame waiting in the reserves in case I want to run my phantom in a pistol configuration.

    I've heard great things about the 86* Phantom frames from CCM and it seems that the RTR Gargoyle frame is somewhat desirable as well. Are either of these worth purchasing over what I currently have? I lean toward the Gargoyle frame since it's less than half the price of the CCM 86 frame but I wonder if it actually feels all of that different from the stock phantom 45* frame.

    What my question here ultimately is I think, is this: is the Gargoyle frame or CCM 86* frame really worth getting or all they mainly hype? Thanks very much for any help and insights
    Last edited by Ego10Baller; 12-12-2020, 12:11 PM.

    Look, the CCM 86 frame is nice for sure.
    I like mine a lot, but objectively was it worth the money? I would say no. If a Phantom was your only/go to marker, that might be a different story.

    It is different, and more comfortable for me on my Phantom.
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      I had a CCM 86* frame for a short time, and it was comfortable but way too thin. I have not tried the Gargoyle frame.


        I find 86 frames too small. I have a Pachmayr Vindicator on one of my Phantoms, and some random thing on the other (UTG, I think?). Both very comfy, especially the Vindicator. I'd have that on everything if I could find more, but the people who own them never sell, for good reason.

        (btw if anyone has a Pachmayr Vindicator you aren't using, hit me up.)


          I bought the RTR grip and am happy with it, I like the swell on the backstrap a lot more then stock. I also needed a grip with less of an angel on the asa for mounting my stock.


            I love the Apoc K-frame. Toss some Hogues on that sucker and point and shoot. I have a CCM frame on my side saddle Phantom and I haven't used it in game yet, but I'm not sold on it, like others are alluding to it's a bit thin.
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            • Diomedes


              Editing a comment
              I'm just worried about the durability of printed parts. I'm kind of tough on my gear on the field, don't want to make a hard landing and have two grips instead of one. But other than that...I think it's Paintzapper with the real beefy Hogues on an Apoc setup. That looks real nice.

            • Paintzapper
              Paintzapper commented
              Editing a comment
              I actually didn't get the 3D printed K-Frame adapter, but threw on my own AR Hogue grip instead. Super cozy grips and just feel right in the hands, highly recommended. Now I am running the CCM phantom grip so I can run an L stock for some extra stability.

              As to 3D printed parts in general, I am highly abusive with my paintball gear and after replacing some of my spring feed parts a few times, I asked Apoc to hook me up with some MJF Nylon parts from a vendor I like to work with. They were 2-3 times the price but have yet to break on me.

            You could also source a Sergison humpback frame. They are similar to the RTR frames but are harder to find. I don’t know if Dan Sergison is still offering to make them. I have one and it’s very nice! I’m saving it for a special occasion but I don’t know what that is yet...

            i have 2 CCM 86 frames. I like them because they are small/thin. They just feel nice. But if you can’t get one for ~ $90 new or in excellent condition, then totally not worth it. Anything higher than that is fanboy territory. I’m actually shocked how inexpensive the RTR frame is.

            I’ve never used an RTR frame but they look great and I’ve never heard a bad thing about them.
            My feedback


              I love my CCM frame. If they were still available for $50-75 I'd put one on every Phantom I own. The RTR frames are a distant second place. The stock 45 frame will do if that's all I've got.


                Hogue CZ grips fit on the CCMs, right? Might make them less thin...


                • Rusty Brass

                  Rusty Brass

                  Editing a comment
                  Yes to both.

                I've had all of them but none of them make the phantom more comfortable than the stock frame. Mostly they just make it look different. The one worthwhile update is if you use an ASA on the bottom and want it flat, either an adapter or a frame that has a bottom parallel to the barrel is a good way to go.

                All of the discomfort comes from trying to use a .45 style block on an m16 style trigger assembly. The trigger assembly doesn't mesh well with the web of your hand and is awkward in general compared to a proper .45 frame. I would much prefer a big block, and then a regular .45 frame on the bottom more like a lapco or a carter.

                Still, when I'm playing the game it doesn't really make a difference, its just one of the few design elements of the phantom that I think could be significantly improved (but it would reduce versatility!) so it would be a it should stay the same.

                I used a hogue m16 grip with the rubber piece that extends and makes the grip flush with an M16. It needs to be cut a little bit to fit on the phantom, but that was a real ergonomic improvement, but it doesn't facilitate bottomline mounting.


                  The slight hump in the RTR frame makes it much more comfortable than the stock CCI frame. The Metadyne grip frames are pretty nice as well if you have a bigger hand. Not much of a fan of the CCM 86. As mentioned it's thin, even with Hogue rubber on it.

                  I've had good luck with using Dye sticky grips on the stock .45 frame. The wings on the back keeps the hand from choking up high on the grip.


                    I’ve no experience with the RTR frame, but I’ve got plenty of experience with the CCM + Hogue combo and it’s a night and day difference.

                    Just picking up and holding a stock Phantom is more “annoying” than “uncomfortable” but during a game? In those moments that you’re holding and waiting for that perfect shot the stock grip REALLY grates on me. So, if that sounds relatable, either the RTR or the CCM would probably be a worthwhile upgrade.


                      I like the CCM 86* frame the best especially with the thumb relief aluminum panels.


                        86* with the palm swell aluminum grips 👌🏼


                          Very subjective, I have tried 86* frames several times on several different markers and end up getting rid of them and going back to 45 frames. In particular I went the RTR route for my Duckslide and find it quite nice with the extra milling (backstrap), dust finish (rough textrue0 and hump makes gripping my frame "easier". This is kind of like I am anon-Glock user (owned several over the years) nothing wrong with them just never got comfortable with them in my hand. That being said I often recommend Glock as a starting point for a new shooter, nothing wrong with them just not my personal preference. The same with 86* frames I love the idea and quality of them they just don't work for me.

                          As Cunha, you really can not go wrong with the stock AR style grip. The frame is designed for them so ergonomically one of the best setups and there literally is a plethora of grips with subtle differences to them that you can fine tune a grip that fits you best.

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