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Montneel Design Mega Z help

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    #31
    'Kay gents, I'll start putting together some O-ring kits, too. Mine could use 'em anyway- it worked, last I gassed it up, but that's been a while, and the outer O-ring on the cup seal had at least softened to the point it broke when I tried to remove it.

    And, unrelatedly, while I have it out, I should dupe the entire valve a couple of times, and get the two parts-box guns back up and running. Those have been sitting in storage way too long.

    Doc.
    Doc's Machine & Airsmith Services: Creating the Strange and Wonderful since 1998!
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      #32
      Okay, I think I have it just about nailed down. So far I've had to make two custom tools- one of which took about five iterations, and the other, two. And, it's taken four full-fledged tries:



      The far left is the original, with a new outer O-ring. (The original one broke when I tried to remove it.) The second is the first rough trial piece, before I got in the new O-rings.

      The middle one was today's first attempt- note how the walls bent in when I crimped it. The second from the right is today's #2, using the same crimp but without the outer O-ring groove. (So it has more support when swaged.

      And the right-most is the latest. Made a second crimp tool, nailed down a couple of dims a bit better, and then turned the outer O-ring groove after crimping. This one I should be able to test, though I'm going to make another valve body and two more power tubes, before I button the Z back up for testing. That way I can put my other two back together, too.

      And, later this evening, now that I have some fairly solid specs and a good grooving tool, I'm going to try and write a program for the CNC lathe.

      Stand by.

      Doc.
      Doc's Machine & Airsmith Services: Creating the Strange and Wonderful since 1998!
      The Whiteboard: Daily, occasionally paintball-related webcomic mayhem!
      Paintball in the Movies!

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      • NONOBLITUS

        NONOBLITUS

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        Standing by with my PayPal account ready to roll.

      • Brokeass_baller
        Brokeass_baller commented
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        Doc is a god among men.

      • Meleager7

        Meleager7

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        paypal ready

      #33
      I believe that's it, gentlemen. I cracked my Mega-Z open on the 21st, and by late in the evening of the 25th, I have tagged-and-bagged product for you.

      Once I had nailed down the dimensions, including being sure to leave clearance around the power tube for recock air (I almost screwed that one up ) I sat down and wrote out a program for my CNC lathe. That took a little work, but with a bit of patience, and surprisingly few screwups, I had workable code.

      Ran a couple test pieces, adjusting a few dimensions here and there as necessary...



      And finally got it dialed in. This is the first "just right" piece out of the machine:



      And here it is alongside the original:



      I assembled that back into the Z valve...



      And slapped the gun back together. I'm out of CO2 right now, but I plugged in an HPA tank- she sealed right up and fired perfectly. I stuck on a hopper and elbow, and honked a little paint out the back door- velocity was clearly low, but she cycled and fired just fine. And on eight or nine year old paint, too.

      Yeah, that was hardly a comprehensive test, but really, as long as the seal stays in place- and the crimp sees to that- what can go wrong? I'll pick up some more CO2 this coming week, and give it a more thorough stress test, but I'm confident they'll work just fine. The seal face is 90 durometer Viton- a touch softer than the hard poly original ring (at least in my one sample ) but should last a good long time.

      I had two chunks of brass, and the shorter one, after chewing up a fair bit with test parts, gave me a solid twenty to start with.



      I got those deburred, cleaned, installed the O-rings and crimped 'em.



      I'll run the other bar in the morning, and of course I save my proven programs so I can always crank out more as necessary, in the future.

      Call it $22 each plus shipping, I can mail 'em anywhere in the US for $5, and I think I can do most places outside the US for $14.

      My PayPal is ordering@docsmachine.com and operators are standing by!

      Doc.
      Doc's Machine & Airsmith Services: Creating the Strange and Wonderful since 1998!
      The Whiteboard: Daily, occasionally paintball-related webcomic mayhem!
      Paintball in the Movies!

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      • NONOBLITUS

        NONOBLITUS

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        Wow !! I will take 4 , is that $5 to ship or $22 X $5. Just want
        to pay correctly. I want 4 rebuild kits with bumpers and cup seals. Should I wait out of making it easier on you to ship all at once ?

      #34
      Oh, and for those that want a full rebuild kit? I'll have the rest of the O-rings on the way next week, and I'll cast some more bumpers while I'm at it. If you want to hold off for the full kit, just let me know, but if you want just a cup seal and bumper set, I can do those at any time.

      Doc.
      Doc's Machine & Airsmith Services: Creating the Strange and Wonderful since 1998!
      The Whiteboard: Daily, occasionally paintball-related webcomic mayhem!
      Paintball in the Movies!

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      • Meleager7

        Meleager7

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        I'll wait and buy 2 full kits, one kit for my current montneel z-1, and one spare kit for my future Mega-Z !

      #35
      curious, as you reverse engineered Montneels valve / cup seal design , were you tempted to just redo something like the Tippmann inline valve cup seal and stem but to the Montneel valve specs?

      Any revelation why montneel designer made a cup seal that rides along the valve stem?

      Click image for larger version

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      '96 RF Mini Cocker, '95 RF Autococker, 68-Automag Classic, Banzai Splash Minimag, Gen-E Matrix, Shoebox Shocker 4x4, Montneel Z-1, Tippmann Pro-Carbine, Tippmann Mini-Lite, Tippmann Model-98, Tippmann SL-68II , Tippmann 68-Special, Spyder .50 cal Opus/Opus-A , Spyder Victor II , Tippmann .50 Cal Cronus , Gog Enmey .50 cal , Tippmann Vert ASA 68-Carbine, Bob Long Millennium, ICD Grey Green Marble Splash Alleycat Deluxe (runs liquid co2) , Halfblock 2K4 Prostock Autococker

      Meleager7 Feedback: https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/b...ager7-feedback

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        #36
        [Wow !! I will take 4 , is that $5 to ship or $22 X $5. Just want
        to pay correctly. I want 4 rebuild kits with bumpers and cup seals. Should I wait out of making it easier on you to ship all at once ?
        -$5 for the entire order. That'd be a First Class padded envelope, I could put dozens of seals and bumpers in there.

        I should have the rest of the O-rings by the end of next week- I only have the new cup seals and bumpers on hand right this moment. But, no worries about running out or missing out- I can make however many are needed.

        I'll wait and buy 2 full kits, one kit for my current montneel z-1, and one spare kit for my future Mega-Z !
        -Not a problem.

        curious, as you reverse engineered Montneels valve / cup seal design , were you tempted to just redo something like the Tippmann inline valve cup seal and stem but to the Montneel valve specs?

        Any revelation why montneel designer made a cup seal that rides along the valve stem?
        -I'm not sure I follow you. Do you mean a new part for the Tippmann valve where the actual sealing element is fixed, rather than on the moving poppet?

        And the Montneel seal doesn't ride/move. It's fixed as the back "wall" of the valve chamber. The power tube is pushed away from it by the hammer, and the air goes through the center of the tube.

        As for why they did it that way, it's actually fairly simple, and clearly pretty durable- a lot of these guns made it 20+ years without an issue. My Mega was still working fine at 30 years. As for replaceability, there are very few paintball manufacturers that expect their stuff to still be around- let alone still being used- thirty years from now.

        Doc.
        Doc's Machine & Airsmith Services: Creating the Strange and Wonderful since 1998!
        The Whiteboard: Daily, occasionally paintball-related webcomic mayhem!
        Paintball in the Movies!

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          #37
          Any revelation why montneel designer made a cup seal that rides along the valve stem?
          I remember Montneels first product was actually drop-in valve kits for the 68-Special. THen the original Z-1 was sorta built around those modified 68-special valves, into a new gun. This was a few years before TIppmann had the CVX valve

          Comment


            #38
            Has anyone asked Krippendroph yet if he is keeping his mega Z now that magical unicorn parts have been willed into existence!??
            '96 RF Mini Cocker, '95 RF Autococker, 68-Automag Classic, Banzai Splash Minimag, Gen-E Matrix, Shoebox Shocker 4x4, Montneel Z-1, Tippmann Pro-Carbine, Tippmann Mini-Lite, Tippmann Model-98, Tippmann SL-68II , Tippmann 68-Special, Spyder .50 cal Opus/Opus-A , Spyder Victor II , Tippmann .50 Cal Cronus , Gog Enmey .50 cal , Tippmann Vert ASA 68-Carbine, Bob Long Millennium, ICD Grey Green Marble Splash Alleycat Deluxe (runs liquid co2) , Halfblock 2K4 Prostock Autococker

            Meleager7 Feedback: https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/b...ager7-feedback

            Comment


            • Chuck E Ducky

              Chuck E Ducky

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              It’s already in the hands of a Ragnastock member. It’s going to get rebuilt and put back to work.

            • Meleager7

              Meleager7

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              this is the way

            • NONOBLITUS

              NONOBLITUS

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              Yup like Mr Ducky said. It’s in my hands.

            #39
            I now have just over a hundred parts on hand, though I'll need to order more O-rings to finish 'em off, of course.



            I figure that should be several years' supply. How many people even still play with a Z anymore? Most fields don't even carry CO2 these days... But hey, if you're one of those freaks, I gotcha covered! (Don't look at me like that- I have three. )

            I even took a moment to lightly rework a couple of the early 'dialing in' parts that were close, and managed to make use of most of those, too.



            Stand by for the rest, it'll be on it's way shortly.

            Doc.
            Doc's Machine & Airsmith Services: Creating the Strange and Wonderful since 1998!
            The Whiteboard: Daily, occasionally paintball-related webcomic mayhem!
            Paintball in the Movies!

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              #40
              Most fields don't even carry CO2 these days... But hey, if you're one of those freaks, I gotcha covered
              We laugh about it but it has gone from a mild annoyance, so a major hurdle.

              Not to mention that all the fields within 45 miles from me have either closed, or switched to airsoft. Those further away that are still open still devote half the week to airsoft, "orby" paintball, and 50-cal "gotcha" paintball. The Orby and Gotcha paintball is fine... It is a gateway into real paintball I suppose, but its not for me.

              THere are still a couple fields 100 miles away that offer co2. And if the person at the filling station is younger then 30, I will have to hear: "you tank is broken". "You mean anti-siphon". "can't run a siphon, impossible'. "switch to HPA". "All guns can run HPA". blah blah. Every time

              Comment


                #41
                What's the possibility of DIY? I've had to do that from day one- I've only been on, like, two fields in my entire life that filled CO2. I've filled virtually every other bottle I've ever used, myself.

                Admitted it's how you're NOT supposed to do it- manually inverting a 20-pound tank- but it's not expensive to set up. The tanks are readily available these days what with all the people with "kegerators" and home-shop sized MIG welders, and a pretty good fill station can be put together for $50 to $120.

                It's also possible you could have a privately-owned 20-pounder fitted with a siphon tube, and if the local bottled-gas shop can't fill it there (rather than the usual exchange) generally you can find a shop that services fire extinguishers, that can.

                Yeah, it can be kind of a pain, but welcome to my world. I've been having to jump those hurdles since the beginning.

                Doc.
                Doc's Machine & Airsmith Services: Creating the Strange and Wonderful since 1998!
                The Whiteboard: Daily, occasionally paintball-related webcomic mayhem!
                Paintball in the Movies!

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                  #42
                  In case anyone wants to see how the sausage is made...



                  Doc.
                  Doc's Machine & Airsmith Services: Creating the Strange and Wonderful since 1998!
                  The Whiteboard: Daily, occasionally paintball-related webcomic mayhem!
                  Paintball in the Movies!

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                  • NONOBLITUS

                    NONOBLITUS

                    commented
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                    That’s so awesome, very hypnotic. I am really excited to order up 4 rebuild kits as soon as they are complete.

                  #43
                  Wow this is exciting! I have moved my Mega on but I’m so glad it motivated someone to build new parts for it!! It shall live on!

                  Comment


                    #44
                    Just ordered two seats. Thanks Doc

                    Comment


                      #45
                      Gotcha covered... er, Doc.

                      For everyone else, I have full kits done and assembled! One shiny new cup seal, one rubber hammer bumper, one powertube O-ring, one hammer O-ring, and two valve O-rings. (The last three are the same ones. )



                      Seals alone will be $22 each, plus $4 shipping in the US, and the full kits will be $32 plus $4 shipping in the US. (Same $4 shipping if you order multiple parts/kits.) You can PM me here, email me at sales(at)docsmachine.com or PayPal me at ordering(at)docsmachine.com

                      I'll also have them posted to my online store and eBay shortly.

                      For a proper test, I got a fresh tank of CO2, installed a full kit in my Mega-Z, and threw a couple hoppers downrange:



                      Hammer O-ring was a bit stiff for the first couple dozen cycles, but with a bit of lube she seated in and worked great thereafter.

                      Let's get these badboys back on the field!

                      Doc.
                      Last edited by DocsMachine; 11-30-2022, 09:21 PM.
                      Doc's Machine & Airsmith Services: Creating the Strange and Wonderful since 1998!
                      The Whiteboard: Daily, occasionally paintball-related webcomic mayhem!
                      Paintball in the Movies!

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