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Ultimate Hand Cannon Review Thread - Carter Boxgun, Redux, Avratech R7

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    Ultimate Hand Cannon Review Thread - Carter Boxgun, Redux, Avratech R7


    THANK GOD I SAVED THIS. So much info was lost... doing what I can to bring some info back. Good news is that I will soon be doing a breakdown of a Carter Duck and adding to this review.


    Time to write one of the biggest and only reviews I have ever done. Welcome to the Redux, Carter Boxgun, Avratech Retro 7 review.


    Disclaimer – At this time, I have not been able to chrono, accuracy or efficiency test these markers. The Avratech is on loan, and with the quarantine my shooting spot is not available. I will make updates to this review as I can.

    Second disclaimer – I am not going to talk about ANY drama related to these guns. I would like to keep this as objective as possible, and would ask that you do the same in the comments below.



    Here they are. At first glance these are all beautifully hand crafted nelson based pump markers. But each has its own little quirks and features that make it unique. Lets dive into the Avratech first.

    Avratech R7 / Retro 7




    This marker is a modern recreation of the pistol that started it all, the Nelspot. It features in grip air, a cocker threaded freak barrel, First Strike ready breech, and bolt or pump action. This is a generation one R7, S/N #8.



    It is solidly shorter than the redux, but doesn’t feel too cramped. The pump handle is by far the smallest, and feels slightly smaller than a CCI pump handle, though I am not able to measure. The pump stroke is also better than a Phantom, but not by a ton. It still has a bit of the “clunk” feeling.

    The barrel is cocker threaded, which is a big plus if you want to be able to install one of the Freedummy detents, or if you wish to use a rifled barrel for First strike rounds. The barrel is just barely longer than a standard length freak insert.



    Disassembly is easy. Start by taking out the pump handle screws, and then the thumb screw in front of the grip frame. For further full breakdown, remove the screw holding in the stock class feed, and remove the screw holding the valve to the frame.



    Internals - The Hammer, Power Tube, Cup Seal, Valve Nut, Sear, Main Spring, and Valve Spring are all CCI compatible. The bolt however is not, and as you can see is quite different. Though I did not take it apart, the frame also houses the famous “magic nipple” that supposedly makes the gun keep from overpressuring and allow you to get more shots from the 12 gram. Since this gun is on loan I opted not to go that far into taking it apart, out of fear of breaking a proprietary part.



    First Strike compatibility – This is a primary feature that separates it from the other two. Removing the top tube shows that the breech is milled to allow for FSR. However, in doing so, these have the same problems that most other markers do, which is that the rounds nosedive into the breech and you have to fiddle with the round before pushing the bolt forward. It is certainly playable, but it takes practice.



    The pump handle even has convenient cutouts to allow for FSR without going to full bolt action.





    The trigger looks absolutely savage on this gun, but comes with a draw back. It is THIN. Legitimately the thinnest trigger I have used, or at least feels that way. Its not a huge deal, especially with gloves, but is something to note, and was fixed in later generations.



    In grip air is common to both the Redux and the R7, but are slightly different. The R7 features a cutout that has the 12 gram going straight up, while the Redux is at the same angle as the grip. The R7 pierces very easily but the grip is definitely small and much harder to turn once the co2 is pierced. Some hand solved this with a 3d printed add-on to make the handle have greater surface area and grip. The bottom of the grip also features holes for an ASA if you chose to go that route.



    In comparison the Redux knob is quite a bit bigger.



    The sight is a simple bead up front. It is removable but I am not aware of a direct replacement, as there are no threads. Most of the time I have seen them with Tru-Glo shotgun fiber optic attachments to enhance the very small sight bead. This is one of my main gripes with this gun, as the sight is far too small and not having it a bright color means it is much harder to pick up in dark backgrounds.

    Overview
    Pros – FSR ready, in grip co2, Cocker threaded. Very comfortable grip. Diverse air and feed options.
    Cons – Proprietary parts in Bolt and “magic nipple”. Co2 knob can be hard to turn at times. Sight is SMALL and non-painted so it can be hard to pick up when snapshooting. The SC feed does not take the “smoke” 10 round tubes well (the ones that have the caps attached to them).
    Overall – A nice package with quite a bit of versatility. If I had one permanently, it would get used in the collection and would be very fun for some one off games with FSR.


    Redux





    Here we have my Redux. Picked up last year this is one of the markers I have wanted to own as soon as I saw one. With Duck’s being out of the reach of most players, the Redux was a budget alternative that felt great, shot great and is still prized today. For those that don’t know, this is an homage to one of the greatest guns of all time, the DD68. The feed is attached to the pump handle/slide which is different than most pumps. It is extremely smooth without the pump return spring, which is how I run it. (Spring shown for reference only).



    The gun comes apart with the spin of a single screw and the removal of the pump rod connector, which connects the bolt and the slide in order to pump the gun. The design is the same as original ducks, and works well. From there we see a small barrel that is only partially bored for freak inserts. This is because the freak insert sits partially within the “snub”, aka the steel silver part you see. All Reduxes are freak bored, and had to have special barrels made for extended/whoosh barrels.



    As we can see this Redux has a milled snub, though it is an original Redux and not the fully updated VKC. If I remember correctly this was something that was not done on the very first Reduxes but could be done later if you sent it back to Mongo. (Sadly nearly all the threads in the Redux knowledge base sticky are dead, but if someone knows more about snubs, please PM me). The cut snub helped eliminate a problem where a second ball would drop too far into the breech and be “sliced” by the slide when pumping the gun forward. Once you learn to pump this gun carefully, you start breaking balls a LOT less.



    Internals are similar to CCI, and I have been told the bolts are compatible, but only on the VKC Redux’s could you do a full CCI swap.





    A side note, make sure you do not use too long of screws, they do go all the way through the CO2 grip threads. Overall the grip is large, but feels appropriate for the size and weight of the gun. This is a hand cannon after all!



    The Redux uses a long CCI style tube, and a CCI end cap. VKC ducks later got a one piece feed.



    The sights on the Redux are AMAZING. I have a larger than normal front sight that is painted orange and is extremely easy to see when aiming. The rear sight is a fixed blade, and does its job nicely. One of the best parts of having an offset feed is that pointing this gun feels much more natural than other SC markers. Having the sights that low to the barrel means your normal pistol shooting stance starts to feel natural, and shooting one hand is even easier.


    Overview
    Pros – Great sights, amazing feel, constant air option (a personal bonus, I am aware these are rare).
    Cons – Chopping can be an issue, the tendency for it to feed 2 balls into the breech is very common but can be solved with practice. If you don’t have a CA adapter then being stuck to 12 grams only can be a bit of a bummer in comparison to the other 2.

    Overall – I was beyond excited to get this in my collection. I couldn’t afford one the first time these came up and then I left the sport. After getting back I couldn’t resist trading for one. The hand cannon vibes from this are amazing and the gun shoots GREAT. It really is very accurate with the sights. It will get used plenty in my gear bag and the only gun to replace it would be the Box Gun. I plan to have another barrel made for it so that I can use a very special “accessory” that came with said Boxgun. When that happens…. I don’t know if it will ever leave my side.


    Continued below...

    #2
    Carter Machine Boxgun

    I picked this up, partially because I missed having a Carter, and partially because of the beautiful Whoosh barrel that came with it. But I won’t be reviewing that as a part of this review, it gets judged on its own.



    This Carter boxgun seems to be an older design, without markings on the side and with a beefier pump handle than most others I have seen. The ano is in surprisingly good condition. The frame seems to be different than others I have seen, and has a more “vertical” feel to it compared to both other box guns and the other guns in this review. It is the only gun with BBA. While I love in grip co2 for looks, BBA is clearly the way to go when playing. Since it has been cold here recently I have been using a remote line to either an HPA tank or to a small CO2 mounted on my belt. It also pairs nicely with a 3.5oz tank on the back, but be warned that like most Carters, there is no pin to depress a tank valve, so you must use an on/off valve with this gun.



    Disassembly is the most difficult on this gun, but it’s a Nelson… sooo its not very hard at all. Flathead screws for the pump handle and allen keys for the rest. This is also the only gun here to NOT use a freak barrel, it uses the Carter barrel insert system. I know I said I couldn’t review accuracy…. But I can attest that for some reason, the Carter inserts are magic. I shot this side by side with the Redux a few weeks before this… and I can’t tell you how, but the paint became a guided missile out of the Boxgun.



    Standard Carter internals.





    Sights are excellent on the Boxgun. A solid blade up front with two dots in the back. I filled them in with white paint as personal preference. Rear feed can be removed for cram and jam if preferred.

    Overview
    Pros – BBA is easier to deal with and easier for playing. Sights are nice and accurate.
    Cons – Grip frame is an odd shape, had to use a spacer to fill out the grips. Carter’s don’t accept freak inserts well, and Carter barrel inserts are VERY hard to find.

    Overall – Typical Carter quality and feel. Smoother than the Avratech or the Redux with the return spring. Shoots extremely well. It is the only gun I would consider to replace the Redux, it truly is that accurate. BBA is much nicer for playing but does not looks good in pictures/cool factor.



    Well there you have it folks. If I get the chance to shoot them soon I will update all 3 guns with accuracy and efficiency results. Please feel free to ask questions and I will try to answer them. Also check out my Instagram for more photos and maybe some shooting videos here soon.

    Comment


      #3
      uh

      Are those down the barrel pics new? Those midclock Necrocockers haven't been around that long, and I remember this thread being several years old...

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Magmoormaster View Post
        uh

        Are those down the barrel pics new? Those midclock Necrocockers haven't been around that long, and I remember this thread being several years old...
        Nope, I only made it a few months ago. Back in April I believe? Necrococker actually just got finished a few weeks ago.

        Comment


          #5
          Very nice build. That’s the first finished build I’ve seen with a necro. Looks great!

          And thanks for reposting your pistol review. I enjoyed reading it.
          Feedback: https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/b...a’s-feedback

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Lt. head-shot View Post

            Nope, I only made it a few months ago. Back in April I believe? Necrococker actually just got finished a few weeks ago.
            Ah, I must be mistaking it for a different one then.

            Good review. Only one I have experience with is the R7. BTW, the trigger takes cocker trigger shoes. Makes it feel soooo much better.

            Comment


              #7
              What are your thoughts on that Nummech frame and foregrip? They look badass but damn they aren't cheap, can the trigger pull or some other factor justify the price?
              The fog is rolling in, the tide is high
              Diane's as fat can be,
              Aye captain Aye

              Comment


              • Lt. head-shot

                Lt. head-shot

                commented
                Editing a comment
                It is an excellent frame. Super comfy and I like the customization options on the foregrip. For me it was not that much of a stretch in cost once you factor in a good ASA and a regulator. The trigger pull is really nice, though if you prefer hinges, you'd have to look elsewhere. The trigger shoe is really big and comfortable. Only downside is that some grips might need fitting/trimming to fit. Some of the 45 panels I had on there needed to be sanded at the bottom right as the hump meets the ASA. But if the grip frame was bigger to accommodate all grips, then it would be too big. I'll work on making a review of the Nummech body and frame.

              #8
              Great review, but goddamn that Necrococker! You may have just inspired me...
              💀 Custodian & Poison Ivy Aficionado, Ragnastock 💀

              Comment

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