Anyone ever tried using a weaker back valve spring coupled with a weaker main spring? Spring kits dont seem to provide a different valve spring but I figure I can find a similar spring lying around and chop it down. Worth the test or waste of time?
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Making new mods. -
Best spring combo is the stock silver spring setup. Perfect balance for HPA and Co2. Lightly oiled clean internals with a good fitting breach Oring = Amazing 12g performance and a good velocity adjustable range 280-300fps for HPA with at least 800psi input pressure. (I set my HPA bottles to 825psi)
You would need to run a Air Rifle reg that put a crazy amount of output pressure like 1k psi+ to hit field speeds with a weaker valve/hammer spring setup then what is provided in the spring kit. You are going to need a lot of pressure to get 280-300fps out of it if it will work at all. It may end up being really hard on paint to.
What exactly are you trying to accomplish with weaker springs?Last edited by Chuck E Ducky; 04-28-2021, 11:53 PM.-
12g performance is amazing must agree. I laughed my ass off so fucking hard when I tried to compare with a TPX it's no contest (thought there was an FPS mismatch so I'll give the TPX the benefit of the doubt).
My purpose for the question is because this marker is shooting below expected FPS, but I was told it was cobbled together from a parts bin and I can confirm it was extremely disgusting inside. I've since cleaned it, but am just looking for options incase it still shoots under 280 the next time I crono it. I'm sure it'll be fine... but also there is a 2nd reason to have the option to lighten slide pull weight if one wishes to. It might not be necessary to have such a strong spring to achieve field FPS?
I'm sure CCI tested this to the max an put the optimal spring in, but just wondering.
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Lighter spring will give you lower velocity. You can polish up your internals. It’s not recommended with new internals because there is a coating on them. But pitted ruff older internals get your shine on... drill and a lil jewelers jewlers rouge. Put some new Stock silver springs lightly oil the polished parts and insure your bolt oring is in good condition and fits the barrel you are using and seals well. I haven’t found a Phantom I couldn’t get over 40+ shots to a 12g on using this method. This includes the one a buddy sent me to “fix” that looked like it sat in a bucket of water for 5+ years. (Actually shot great after I was done) internals looked like hell but it shoot Phantastic.Comment
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Answer: Waste of time.
Replacing your stock springs with lighter valve and main springs will accomplish nothing - other than risking having the valve train leak due to the lack of enough tension on the cup seal. The valve spring must work in unison with the main spring in order to allow enough CO2 to vent and propel the ball at the required FPS. Normally, in order to increase FPS, you want a heavier main spring which will increase "dwell" (which is the length of time the valve remains open). While this may increase FPS, it also decreases overall CO2 efficiency as more gas is being expended than with a normal spring. To counter this, a heavier valve spring is needed to oppose the heavier main spring which will prevent excess dwell. Ultimately, it will take a lot of time, tinkering and 12-grams to find the best spring combination that will maximize efficiency at the desired FPS. Unless you have a reg or stabilizer that needs a lighter or heavier main spring in order to function effectively, then the stock springs are the best choice.
It's important to remember that temperature determines pressure in CO2. The lower the temp, the lower your pressure - which will lower your FPS. Beyond using your gun in warmer temps, the single biggest factor affecting low or inconsistent FPS from a gun that has been shooting fine is the quality of the paint. If you've got dimpled, out-of-round, or old paint, then you'll never be able to maximize performance. The same holds true for the paint size-to-bore match. If your paint size is smaller than your bore size, you'll see fluctuations in both consistency and accuracy, as well as a noticeable drop in 12-gram efficiency. Paint needs to be as fresh, dry and as round as possible or any performance expectations are out the window. Once you have decent paint, you need to use a barrel insert or fixed bore barrel that matches the size of the paint you're using. In warmer temps, with good paint, an accurate paint-to-bore match and stock springs you should be able to have the accuracy, efficiency, consistency and simplicity that the Phantom is known for.Comment
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Don't listen to the nay sayers! Try it! Have fun with it, just don't expect much beyond some nice relaxing target practice.
Originally posted by MAr "... Nish deleted it..."
Originally posted by Axel "coffee-fueled, beer-cooled."
Originally posted by Carp "Nish's two brain cells"
Master Jar-JarComment
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Hard to get good results with bad paint. Unfortunately it’s hard to find good paint today. Lately I have been over boring my Phantoms due to paints inconsistent OD, and letting my ASP detents do there job. I take the hit on efficiency a lil but I counter that by just chrono down a lil bit. I find it’s more accurate and allows me to shoot super brittle paint threw my Phantom so that well placed shot breaks even alt lower velocity. Most engagements are closer so it plays to my SC style.
My Magic number I like to stay around is 42 shots I tune for it specifically. But leave room for temperature fluctuations. I count tubes not shots. Just one less thing to think about when you really get into a good battle. 12 round feed+ 3 tubes = 42 shots (change out) then I change out every 4 tubes = 40 shots. Makes it easy to keep track so you are always getting that good crisp full velocity shot.Comment
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They used to have sets with weaker springs. If you want to try, let me know I should still have a set somewhere. A long time ago I used softer springs for my main and valve to some success. However have stopped and have been testing with valve springs I had made. Similar to Chuck E I get around 40 shots per 12 gram but that number fluctuates between all of my Phantoms even if they are set up the same. I have done extensive testing with springs trying to eek out a few more shots at 280 because I started with a rear asa Phantom that only shot 30. After many configurations, talking to other, and testing for myself my max count is at 45.
What Slim said is also true about temperature, and to add I think there is some factors from even location that might affect shot count. This not to mention that not all 12 grams are filled equally most likely.
Just try and let us know what you find. Let me know if you want the springs.Comment
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