Rifling barrel for first strikes?

[coyote]

"Rec ball". Short for recreational ball.

The point, have fun. If the rules allow for the gear FSRs aren't " cheating'. We are having a pretend gunfight. In a real gunfight it is quite likely that different participants will field different platforms. Well planned load outs and tactics create different situational advantages.

My old scenario team had a player that adopted FSRs early. That gave us the ability to discover the advantages and disadvantages of that style of play. I enjoyed that process. I enjoy playing with FSR guys, because I'm a better team mate for them. I enjoy playing against them because I'm potent opposition.

First Strikes aren't the game changer many players make them out to be. I had a dedicated kit for FSRs, I prefer playing round ball.

[Frmrspec]

How is it considered sportsmanship or fair to compete against markers that range 50-75yards with a FS dart that goes 100-150yards. I just don’t see how that’s not cheating. Not to mention the welts that FS darts cause due to their increased mass, the contusions are way worse which leads me to believe a FS dart close up to a soft spot could be a serious safety issue. Paintball hits your neck, it sucks. A FS dart hits your neck and it could be an ambulance ride.

Its fair because the amount you can carry on you is extremely limited and cost prohibitive.. and they've been used extensively for a long time now.. if there was serious safety issue, you would know it. And as someone who has played with and against first strikes for almost 10 years, I complain more about cheap paint hurting. Tell me how it's considered good sportmanship or fair with ramping electronic markers. We can spin in circles all day long... tbh I've used my Apex2 over First Strikes because it isn't as advantageous as one would like to believe.

[Frmrspec]

I wonder how much paint weight changes between brands/fills.. my absolute favorite tournament paint from back in 2007/2008 (PWI turbulence) case of 2000rds was noticeably heavier than other cases. I remember weighing it but forgot the actual numbers

[KMDPB]

Just weighed them on my scale, regular paintball 3.4 grams, first strike dart, 2.5 grams

[Daltech]

Paintballs: .683, 3g DXS Silver Ball Paintball fired at 300 FPS Maximum Range: 94 Yards Angle for Max Range: 26 Degrees Terminal Energy: .453FtLb
First Strike Rounds: .683, 3.11g Tiberius Arms First Strike Round fired at 300 FPS Maximum Range: 178 Yards Angle for Max Range: 32 Degrees Terminal Energy: 1.388FtLb

Taken from: https://www.pbnation.com/showthread....topics/4087614

Makes sense that the FS dart carries velocity longer as it is more aerodynamic. Simply stated; the FS Dart is traveling a full 280~fps whilst the lowly paintball has already dropped down to 200~fps at 50 yards.

I appreciate your understanding and civility in this discussion. Science 🧪.

[latches109]

what did your bench set up look like? marker was mounted in a vice?

[KMDPB]

How is it considered sportsmanship or fair to compete against markers that range 50-75yards with a FS dart that goes 100-150yards. I just don’t see how that’s not cheating. Not to mention the welts that FS darts cause due to their increased mass, the contusions are way worse which leads me to believe a FS dart close up to a soft spot could be a serious safety issue. Paintball hits your neck, it sucks. A FS dart hits your neck and it could be an ambulance ride.

fsr actually have less mass than a standard paintball. They have half the fill. They hurt more because they dont slow down nearly as fast after leaving the barrel when compared to a round ball and the poly shell takes much more force to break than the thin gelatin shell of a paintball.

I agree it's doesn't always have its place in a game but you sound a lot like me before trying them for yourself! 😛

[Daltech]

First off. Y’all are chasing the 🐉 dragon.

An object traveling 290fps is traveling 290fps from an open bolt, closed bolt, DIY garage rifling, NASA space engineering riffling, PVC Pipe, Magically spellbound with flames on the side and a spiked bracelet or a tube made out of brass. There’s no debate here.

FS has more mass. You all remember newton and his laws right?

FS is frowned upon in rec ball. It’s a cheat, creating a longer distance to the target therefore creating an unfair advantage. This advantage is not a benefit of the FS player, as they are regularly picked out first and sought after because their unfair advantage is looked upon as cheating by spending astronomical amounts of money on costumes, gear and $1-2 a piece FS darts. I’m calling them what they really are, badminton birds or darts.

FS darts are not paintBALLS. Funny part is everyone playing with FS darts calls them “Rounds”. I’ll let you fill in the blanks.

At large scenario games or when a FS darts player comes to rec ball, he’s getting ramp balled once I find them hiding in the bushes somewhere shooting through a crack that they dug with the shovel in their belt😭.

How is it considered sportsmanship or fair to compete against markers that range 50-75yards with a FS dart that goes 100-150yards. I just don’t see how that’s not cheating. Not to mention the welts that FS darts cause due to their (increased mass-incorrect, it’s sustained velocity), the contusions are way worse which leads me to believe a FS dart close up to a soft spot could be a serious safety issue. Paintball hits your neck, it sucks. A FS dart hits your neck and it could be an ambulance ride.

I had to get that out. All being said, I do think FS has a place and is in its own right pretty awesome. If it’s FS darts only, that’s awesome.

[KMDPB]

Man you are a machine!

[KMDPB]

I feel like if the fins on the fsr extended out past the OD of the nose and they then locked into the grooves of the rifling you could really spin stabilize the round well before it even leaves the barrel. I can't see rifling that doesn't engage with the round doing too much..

[JeeperCreeper]

It's their marketing, and just what I've heard from people that have used them. I figured the quotation marks would have summed that up.

[uv_halo]

While their barrels work well. It's silly to say that they designed them for First Strikes. They developed their rifling pattern and, tooling at least five years before First Strikes were conceived. The only 'barrels' I would say that were specifically designed for FS are the Carmatech Nemesis and, the PWR Lapco Rifled inserts.

[Seajay]

They do work when you start shooting into the longer ranges. I've got a nemesis and older style hammerhead, and if you can get your FPS consistency really good the FSR shots become very predictable (accurate??).
The Nemesis works better on my Phenom x-7 setup, and the hammerhead works better on my EMR Spyder.
The hammerhead however uses the fins for bore matching so I can run normal paintball too, and it's less likely to have issues.

If you find you're shooting a lot under 100 yards then I've found a tighter bore and any barrel you want works great. They shoot pretty flat at normal bunker to bunker ranges.

I'd argue that single shot are the best setups because of consistency, then you have the MG100. My Phenom and Spyder are just not as consistent as paintball markers but that really only shows when you are trying to lob an FSR through a keyhole. If I can see your lens I can hit you.

[uv_halo]

It blows my mind that folks would use smoothbore barrels for First Strike rounds, given how expensive they are. I consider it as a means of getting the most of what I paid for. That being said, I have the OPs thoughts in mind, with a single shot system, you really want to get the most out of the projectile.

Rifled Barrels Work! Assuming the correct twist direction- Armson is the odd barrel out here.

• I had high speed video shot to confirm that the rounds exit the barrel spinning.
• I have multiple, well-documented 20rd strings that showed that even the poorest rifled barrel performed better than the best smoothbore in the test.
• I only have a few questions that would take a pretty big chunk of money (several hundred $) to test:
  • What is the optimal twist rate for a fin-stabilized, spinning projectile, does it follow the standard external ballistics theory?
  • Does the pre-spinning contribute to an an increased ballistic coefficient? If so, how much? And does it change over the duration of the flight?

More information can be found here.

To Add: I consider controlled testing (ideally, indoors for these lightweight projectiles) to be way more valuable than 'how they feel' on the field. Paintball has a rather silly history of folks shooting projectiles in field conditions and jumping to all sorts of wrong conclusions:

• Closed bolt paintball guns are more accurate than open bolt
• Paintball shots, over a long enough string will form a donut pattern
• Rifled barrels will improve the ballistics of regular paint
• Bore-matching has any influence on accuracy
• Low breach pressure guns are more accurate than high breach pressure guns.
• Elliptical Honing is more accurate than single or stepped bore diameters.
• I don't think I need to go on.

It's not that anyone of those folks who put forward such ideas are dumber than anyone else. It's just that our brains are biased in finding patterns, where none exist, and they tried one of these ideas in the setting of a game, or even shooting outdoors without precision wind data (1-3mph winds will screw with the flight of a 3g projectile), and they perceived the results as being 'better', and when it doesn't go their way, they come up with an excuse (the gun, the paint, etc).

[Lt. head-shot]

I did a ton of comparison between the Hammerhead, Lapco and Carmatech barrels with a hammer 7 build, a 468 build, Mg100, etc. In most cases they did perform better than a non-rifled barrel. But not by a ton, and the differences between each were again minimal. I liked Lapco and Carmatech the best, as we had trouble with rollouts on the Hammerhead sometimes. I like that Lapco has different sizes too, in the cases where you get extra small FSR.

But I say go for it!