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Estimated cat valve efficiency?

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    Estimated cat valve efficiency?

    Hey all, my new to me Puma shows up today, and Ive spent the last couple of days being excited to shoot a blowback again, which is odd. But needless to say Im over here trying to think about what tank to use on this beast, and I need advice.

    Now, ive read up on these things as much as I can, theres little bits of great information on them scattered across the web. Its all fragmented in pockets from old forums, qnd personql tech pages still alive from around 04.

    One thing I saw mentioned as some of the posts got more recent, is people seem to say you need at least 800 psi to run a cat on hpa. I have a ninja SHP reg just sitting here. Would it be worth running this as a dedicated tank to my cat? I have mag also, but its classic valve so shp isnt really needed. If I went with a dedicated shp tank, you think 900 psi is good, or should I give it more? I believe the shp reg is 900-1200 psi)


    Now for my main question.

    I currently have 5 tanks to be hydrod, and Im asking about efficiency as I may dedicate a tank to this marker(if the shp helps). If I can get away with it, I may put a 50 ci tank on this marker at the back bottle. Id also consider a cali mount under the barrel with my 45/45. But if I can only expect 300 shots out of a 50 or a 45 on this gun, Ill use a 68. If these guns are said to be hogs. I have a 90 ci I could also dedicate.

    My big snag up is the fact that Ill likely wanna run the shp reg(unless told otherwise) so itll be a dedicated tank, and I dont wanna have to swap regs around once all my tanks come back from hydro.

    #2
    I guarantee you probably have a regular standard output reg. Ranges from 800-900 psi depending on manufacture and date it was made. Co2 not exposed to extreme temperatures sits around 900psi output. Shp is over 1000psi and higher, not needed for the puma. Fps may be a little lower if your hpa tank output is more on the lower side. Just needs a spring job if you need more velocity.

    Comment


      #3
      I've no issue running a 750psi on my 'Cat, but I've also done a bit of valve porting, installed a lighter valve spring, and use a gas-thru grip in the vertical ASA as a volumizer.

      In my opinion, a SHP tank is a bandaid. Old blowbacks generally need ​​​volume and increased flow to perform as well as they did on CO2... and most of my experimentation with them has indicated as such.

      And God turned to Gabriel and said: “I shall create a land called Canada of outstanding natural beauty, with majestic mountains soaring with eagles, sparkling lakes abundant with bass and trout, forests full of elk and moose, and rivers stocked with salmon. I shall make the land rich in oil so the inhabitants prosper and call them Canadians, and they shall be praised as the friendliest of all people.”

      “But Lord,” asked Gabriel, “Is this not too generous to these Canadians?”

      And God replied, “Just wait and see the neighbors I shall inflict upon them."

      Comment


        #4


        Jordan. All noted.

        I was kinda hoping to mount my havoc on the front tank port for scenarios, so I was hoping to get away with no volumizer grip, but I understand if its required. Ill have to tinker with it when my tanks get back from hydro.

        I assume you drilled the valve ports out? How big did you take the ports too? I could achieve that pretty easy if I knew what drill you had sucess with.

        Comment


          #5
          MrKittycatMeowFace.

          I have a few ninja standard output regs. one power house haymaker 2, and a ninja shp reg. I always thought the shp with shims removed was 900 or 950 psi so it would be perfeft yo run qn older marker thqt likes co2.

          I do believe this shp I got for an x mag. Then sold the mag, and wanted to use this on a sheridan I couldnt get to speed. After my buddy helped do a valve job on my kp this has just sat. I figured put it to use here , but sounds like I need to work the valve from Jordans post.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by BrickHaus View Post

            Jordan. All noted.

            I was kinda hoping to mount my havoc on the front tank port for scenarios, so I was hoping to get away with no volumizer grip, but I understand if its required. Ill have to tinker with it when my tanks get back from hydro.

            I assume you drilled the valve ports out? How big did you take the ports too? I could achieve that pretty easy if I knew what drill you had sucess with.
            If I recall correctly, I opened the ports up a bit but also notched the head of the cupseal in several places... the idea was to increase flow as much as possible, and the cupseal is a big choke point on these guns.
            And God turned to Gabriel and said: “I shall create a land called Canada of outstanding natural beauty, with majestic mountains soaring with eagles, sparkling lakes abundant with bass and trout, forests full of elk and moose, and rivers stocked with salmon. I shall make the land rich in oil so the inhabitants prosper and call them Canadians, and they shall be praised as the friendliest of all people.”

            “But Lord,” asked Gabriel, “Is this not too generous to these Canadians?”

            And God replied, “Just wait and see the neighbors I shall inflict upon them."

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Jordan View Post
              I've no issue running a 750psi on my 'Cat, but I've also done a bit of valve porting, installed a lighter valve spring, and use a gas-thru grip in the vertical ASA as a volumizer.

              In my opinion, a SHP tank is a bandaid. Old blowbacks generally need ​​​volume and increased flow to perform as well as they did on CO2... and most of my experimentation with them has indicated as such.
              EDIT: Someone beat me to asking Jordan for more information. Please disregard this post.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Jordan View Post

                If I recall correctly, I opened the ports up a bit but also notched the head of the cupseal in several places... the idea was to increase flow as much as possible, and the cupseal is a big choke point on these guns.
                Ill likely be taking mine apart to learn and lube today, so Ill see if I can make sense of it.

                next time ya find yourself into yours, Id love a pic showing your mod work.

                i took this week off to avoid burning up 20 hours of PTO, but todays gonna be hard as I stare down the street waiting for the mailman. Lol

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by BrickHaus View Post

                  Ill likely be taking mine apart to learn and lube today, so Ill see if I can make sense of it.

                  next time ya find yourself into yours, Id love a pic showing your mod work.

                  i took this week off to avoid burning up 20 hours of PTO, but todays gonna be hard as I stare down the street waiting for the mailman. Lol
                  Yea, pictures would be awesome. I cant claim to have a ton of experience with 'cats but I'm guessing (as Jordan suggests) a non-low pressure hpa tank, volumizing foregrip, clean & lube, finished with a tight barrel match would probably get you shooting in the area you need. Please take some pictures BrickHaus I have a barrel coming in for my splash anno cat ... so Ill be using you as a reference point haha.
                  Last edited by ghilliesuit; 12-29-2020, 10:28 AM.

                  Comment


                  • BrickHaus

                    BrickHaus

                    commented
                    Editing a comment
                    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pj7...w?usp=drivesdk

                    Heres one of the few I snapped when I opened it judt to get to know it.

                    The valve is there in the grip frame. That silver part with the ports are the ports we are talking about.

                    The pin sticking through it is attacked to the "star" its pretty self explainatory once ya see it.

                  #10
                  Originally posted by ghilliesuit View Post

                  Yea, pictures would be awesome. I cant claim to have a ton of experience with 'cats but I'm guessing (as Jordan suggests) a non-low pressure hpa tank, volumizing foregrip, clean & lube, finished with a tight barrel match would probably get you shooting in the area you need. Please take some pictures BrickHaus I have a barrel coming in for my splash anno cat ... so Ill be using you as a reference point haha.
                  Tight bore barrels shouldn't be required... I usually run either a stock barrel modified to accept an Apex tip or a Freak with .689 insert with sub-.682 paint. No issues, shoots a consistent 275fps regardless. I haven't had to adjust it since I assembled and chronied it at the beginning of the year.
                  And God turned to Gabriel and said: “I shall create a land called Canada of outstanding natural beauty, with majestic mountains soaring with eagles, sparkling lakes abundant with bass and trout, forests full of elk and moose, and rivers stocked with salmon. I shall make the land rich in oil so the inhabitants prosper and call them Canadians, and they shall be praised as the friendliest of all people.”

                  “But Lord,” asked Gabriel, “Is this not too generous to these Canadians?”

                  And God replied, “Just wait and see the neighbors I shall inflict upon them."

                  Comment


                    #11
                    I see what Jordan modded. The valve has a brass "star" around it. Air passes around the valleys of the star when the valve opens. It then runs up and out of the valve jets. Open the valve star valleys up, and the ports on the valve up, then polish it all shiny.

                    I have a LOT of detail work to do myself. And theres an issue with the trigger/sear/hammer lug. (I think the rear bumpers is dead and swollen) but it takes a lot of force to cock it)

                    But I got my barrels cleaned out, and Ill start the q tip treatment after dinner.

                    Sadly my OG smart parts barrel ( fun fact the light grey back means its a .686 bore) is all pitted on the back for some reason, and the bore seems to have the same issue. Seems like the bore is usable as the old owner must have shot through it a lot regardless.
                    stock foamy barrel seems decent.

                    I still want other barrel options. Heavily torn on getting a cocker to icd lapco adapter so I can run a phi barrel on mine.

                    But other aftermarkets just for trial n error.

                    Comment


                      #12
                      Originally posted by BrickHaus View Post
                      I see what Jordan modded. The valve has a brass "star" around it. Air passes around the valleys of the star when the valve opens. It then runs up and out of the valve jets. Open the valve star valleys up, and the ports on the valve up, then polish it all shiny.

                      I have a LOT of detail work to do myself. And theres an issue with the trigger/sear/hammer lug. (I think the rear bumpers is dead and swollen) but it takes a lot of force to cock it)

                      But I got my barrels cleaned out, and Ill start the q tip treatment after dinner.

                      Sadly my OG smart parts barrel ( fun fact the light grey back means its a .686 bore) is all pitted on the back for some reason, and the bore seems to have the same issue. Seems like the bore is usable as the old owner must have shot through it a lot regardless.
                      stock foamy barrel seems decent.

                      I still want other barrel options. Heavily torn on getting a cocker to icd lapco adapter so I can run a phi barrel on mine.

                      But other aftermarkets just for trial n error.
                      I think I filed grooves into the star's "points" as well... I left enough to stabilize the cupseal in it's cavity, but took some off to increase flow through.

                      A little at a time is better than too much... and a lighter valve spring (to increase valve dwell) isn't a terrible idea either.
                      And God turned to Gabriel and said: “I shall create a land called Canada of outstanding natural beauty, with majestic mountains soaring with eagles, sparkling lakes abundant with bass and trout, forests full of elk and moose, and rivers stocked with salmon. I shall make the land rich in oil so the inhabitants prosper and call them Canadians, and they shall be praised as the friendliest of all people.”

                      “But Lord,” asked Gabriel, “Is this not too generous to these Canadians?”

                      And God replied, “Just wait and see the neighbors I shall inflict upon them."

                      Comment


                        #13
                        ghilliesuit

                        Here yA go man. Knowing i need parts I just quick cleaned and lubed a bunch up. Heres the brass star I mentioned.

                        Comment


                          #14
                          Jordan you hve an idea as to how many shots you get off of your tank? And what size said tank is?

                          Comment


                            #15
                            Originally posted by BrickHaus View Post
                            ghilliesuit

                            Here yA go man. Knowing i need parts I just quick cleaned and lubed a bunch up. Heres the brass star I mentioned.
                            Awesome. Good to know. I have not opened my Cat up yet - so that gives me some clue. Please give me a after photo so I can see what extent you took it too. Thanks man.

                            Comment

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