Snipers on 12 grams / on CO2 Discussion

[ketzer7]

Hi Mike. I remember you telling me the trick with your reg at Slim's. I may have accidentally figured out what the problem was in my case.

In the reg on this particular T2, I had swapped out the pin o-ring (basically the one that acts as the reg seat), for a polyurethane 006-N90 instead of the stock Buna-N 006-N90 based on the recommendation of Tim Firpo (PaintballTek) in a video he did on rebuilding CCM regs. His claim was that the poly o-ring was better for this application than the stock one.

Interestingly, I went back to messing around with this reg again, and happened to put it on an HPA tank that was outputting ~700-750 PSI. At first the CCM reg seemed fine while testing its output, but it suddenly started creeping and then shot up to like 600+ output. Basically not regulating at all. When I took the reg apart, I found that the poly o-ring was partially sucked down into the opening on the poppet nut. Exactly like what I was seeing at Slim's when I was having trouble getting this to work.

I tried swapping out the reg internals with an entirely new set, but still with the poly o-ring on the reg pin - same result, output shot up and o-ring getting sucked down into the nut after a couple of cycles.

As a last troubleshooting attempt, I put the stock Buna-N one back in and tried again on the same tank output pressure. Lo and behold, no issues staying consistent at 300 psi output.

For shits and grins, I took the ICD lever changer stock I got recently and hooked it up to try testing the output of the CCM reg to see what would happen. Went through 3 12 grams testing and no issues staying at consistent 300 psi output.

Last step, I put the ICD stock and reg back on the gun and hooked it all up to test it. Put a 12 gram in, and proceeded to be able to fire the gun many times without any issues. Put a second 12 gram in, and tested it again, and I counted ~30 full power shots and then like the next two were basically nothing, and then the 12 gram was completely spent.

There's a stock class day coming up at OSG soon and I'm going to give this gun another try on 12 grams there. Thanks again for the stock feed!

[Chuck E Ducky]

Something to consider if you are using a CCM mini reg you won’t get it to run on 12g. They choke on anything over 450psi input pressure.

[Stockclass Heroes]

I would love to know what the secret is to getting 12 grams to work on a Sniper-based gun.

At Slim's I spent a bunch of time messing around trying to get my new T2 from CCM working on 12 grams. I could never get it to shoot with any sort of decent velocity at all. It would seem to start out with the first shot or two being full power, and then it would rapidly taper off to the point it couldn't even launch a ball out of the barrel. And no the 12 gram wasn't empty. If I dumped it, there was plenty of gas left in it. I'm talking it would taper off in like 5-6 shots. Other times, it would never get above like 150 fps no matter how I adjusted the reg pressure or main spring.

The CCM reg the gun came with didn't seem to like CO2 at all. One time it vented off through the bottom, two other times, it essentially stopped flowing entirely. Both times, when I took the reg apart to find out why it had stopped, the reg seat o-ring had been partially sucked down into the poppet nut, almost like the pressure was too high? All I can say is that I had already pre-adjusted the reg at home to output 300 psi on HPA, and didn't adjust it at all when switching it over to 12 gram, but it just seemed to be all over the place.

Thinking maybe the problems were being caused by the reg, I switched the gun over to using a Sidewinder I had laying around. Similarly, I pre-adjusted it to 300 psi output, and then didn't touch it after putting it on 12 gram. Didn't really get any different results. Could never achieve any decent velocity out of the gun. I wouldn't think it would.be a problem, but it almost seemed like the gun was sucking liquid in, but I have no idea.

Maybe I am just a moron and doing something wrong, but I gave up. If someone has some tips to try, I'd be happy to try it again because it was really frustrating knowing that folks were using their Sniper-based guns just fine on 12 grams.

So you're not a moron by any means . I run a T2F ( i was also the one selling the carbon fiber feeds for the T2's) 😉😉.
What i need to do for running 12g on my stock ccm is dial the reg one full turn in from my HP setting . Yes this increases the pressure in the valve it also decreases the dwell of the valve by putting more pressure on it. I don't know why it works but it does .

As for the reg issue : the o ring unseating could be soft o rings and needs harder versions, as for the sidewinder try increasing the pressure .

My IVG is set to about 1.5-2 turns in from flush.

Btw i get exactly 32 shots on my ccm running it stockclass


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[grd]

sweetspotting is important for mechanical valved guns. That said IMO you should be sprung to sweetspot under 300 psi.

[grd]

hi russc

[BOOSH]

I would love to see someone post an uncut video as to how this is done with the shot string. The later results in shot strings seem more on par with what I've seen than the original posts.

[ketzer7]

It was probably around 500 psi on the HPA tank output. I have another that is set to 750, so I could try that I guess. I've also wondered if the cheapo bucket changer I'm using could have anything to do with it, but don't know.

[Pump&Run]

Ok, I must have mixed up the information from the lineage of this/these studies in regards to valve size outcomes. So then the post 2K and pre 2k body debate centers around the air chamber then and a standard 9/16th valve all around.

[ChuckLove]

I don't believe 11/16 valves help with 12 g efficiency. The valve chamber is larger which if anything will most likely decrease efficiency with CO2.

[ChuckLove]

What's the output pressure of the tank regulator that you use with it? I wouldn't think it would cause that big of an issue but if it's a lower pressure output you may run into issues. If your tank reg is set at 800 or slightly above and then you sweet spot your high pressure regulator you may have better results on 12g's.

[ketzer7]

I would love to know what the secret is to getting 12 grams to work on a Sniper-based gun.

At Slim's I spent a bunch of time messing around trying to get my new T2 from CCM working on 12 grams. I could never get it to shoot with any sort of decent velocity at all. It would seem to start out with the first shot or two being full power, and then it would rapidly taper off to the point it couldn't even launch a ball out of the barrel. And no the 12 gram wasn't empty. If I dumped it, there was plenty of gas left in it. I'm talking it would taper off in like 5-6 shots. Other times, it would never get above like 150 fps no matter how I adjusted the reg pressure or main spring.

The CCM reg the gun came with didn't seem to like CO2 at all. One time it vented off through the bottom, two other times, it essentially stopped flowing entirely. Both times, when I took the reg apart to find out why it had stopped, the reg seat o-ring had been partially sucked down into the poppet nut, almost like the pressure was too high? All I can say is that I had already pre-adjusted the reg at home to output 300 psi on HPA, and didn't adjust it at all when switching it over to 12 gram, but it just seemed to be all over the place.

Thinking maybe the problems were being caused by the reg, I switched the gun over to using a Sidewinder I had laying around. Similarly, I pre-adjusted it to 300 psi output, and then didn't touch it after putting it on 12 gram. Didn't really get any different results. Could never achieve any decent velocity out of the gun. I wouldn't think it would.be a problem, but it almost seemed like the gun was sucking liquid in, but I have no idea.

Maybe I am just a moron and doing something wrong, but I gave up. If someone has some tips to try, I'd be happy to try it again because it was really frustrating knowing that folks were using their Sniper-based guns just fine on 12 grams.

[BLachance75]

My S6 will get 30 shots off a 12 gram most days. On a hot day it is more. It will shoot full velocity for all but the last shot which is usually 200ish FPS then its done.

[Pump&Run]

If I’ve read everything correct as far as ideal body… is it now a 2k+ front chamber, 11/16 valve , and ( after the Chuck’s above brief discussion ) possibly a bolt face with a smaller air passage to help with efficiency ?

[Chuck E Ducky]

Yeah I’m almost positive mines the last one. It’s the one Ken made for himself. I got it from him years after they were out of production. I would like to find the one out of 15ish that was built with the regulator built in. I have never seen it posted or shown off. I’m curious how he added regulation. Yours is definitely an early one if not the prototype.

[Loophole]

I see! You have one of the run of 9. I have the prior 6 with dropouts. Mine was one of the ealier ones at that.. so it just had a modified pre2k bolt drilled for 2k+. Curious if anyone has done testing with bolts.. i would like to upgrade to something with detent slots so i don't destroy my dual cocker detents!