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Vee Twin Autococker

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  • DocsMachine
    replied
    Originally posted by XEMON View Post
    The other idea I had was to take a revy and cut it in half lengthwise and add a "spacer" to have 2 exit, one on each side of the paddle ...
    -Approximately a million years ago, back shortly after RamboPreacher commissioned and received his Palmer's Grinder, we were discussing just that over on the Tinker's Guild. Simon (Inception, going by Manike back then) was at the time working for NPS, among other places, and had CAD models of the original HALO.

    He made a quick model of what was essentially an "inverted" HALO- normal left and right shells, but with the "inside" halves facing outward.

    Basically, take two of those and bolt them together, then take the halves of a normal HALO and attach them to the outer ends, and you had a solid, unified, triple-motor, triple-feed-neck loader.

    I think Simon said that it was theoretically possible to have the shells printed- they had access to an industrial-quality resin printer. (This was a few years before the cheap home units became available.) I don't think that ever happened, but it would have been awesome if it had.
    ​​​​​​
    you're probably getting close to 3" tall? What's one more inch
    -In these days of super-tiny single-tube markers, the 'Cocker already looks "oversized", and older, unmilled, slab-sided bodies bigger still.

    Now make it roughly 35% bigger still.

    What about putting a ram on each side? It would double your opening force.
    -I've been toying with that idea, too. Wouldn't take much to make a dual-ram front block, and you could take a three-way and just drill an extra pair of exhaust ports with hose nipples, so theoretically you'd have the same pressure and timing on each one.

    The big trick would be installing them. You'd have to have them attach to the back block with setscrews, or laboriously screw the ram shafts in at the front and then screw the rams to the block. Not impossible, but tricky. And if you got the spacing off, you'd still get binding as one side 'pushed' more than the other.

    But that, too, is something that might be fun to try at some point.

    Also, how are you planning on routing the air to the second bolt?
    -Same as the over-under Palmer's; the bottom bolt is drilled through, vertically. The air passage going up from the valve and through bolt bolts looks like the letter "F".

    How efficient it'll be, and how well-regulated each barrel will be, I can't say. I'm told by over-under owners that, like all double-barrel-single-valve guns, it can be a bit difficult to get it up to field speeds, but generally, they seem pretty well regulated barrel-to-barrel.

    Looking forward to trying it out.

    Doc.

    Leave a comment:


  • XEMON
    replied
    Originally posted by DocsMachine View Post

    -I've thought about that for years, ever since making the first VT. [...]
    One trick I thought of was to have the tube leading in to the fork of the "Y", be wider- as in oval shaped. That way the paint is already starting to 'spread sideways' before it hits the fork.

    Again, would it work? Dunno. I'd like to try it at some point.
    didn't thought about the oblong hole ... Interesting idea.
    The other idea I had was to take a revy and cut it in half lengthwise and add a "spacer" to have 2 exit, one on each side of the paddle ...
    ​​​​​​

    Originally posted by DocsMachine View Post
    -You have no idea how monstrously tall this thing is already.

    -On this vertical, I'm already thinking it may turn out that it really only works as a pump. There may be too much drag with the upper bolt, and the block may bind.

    On the Vee-Twin configuration, the pump rod placement is basically ideal- right in the center between the two bolts and the cocking rod. With the vertical, it's down and to the side, and I suspect we may get binding issues at semiauto speeds.

    If that does prove to be the case, I figured a second pump rod on the other side to balance the load, and whip up a pump kit for it.

    Doc.
    you're probably getting close to 3" tall? What's one more inch 😅

    What about putting a ram on each side?
    It would double your opening force.

    Also, how are you planning on routing the air to the second bolt?

    Leave a comment:


  • DocsMachine
    replied
    It kind of looks like it could stand a better detent system, too. That lower ball is too far forward, and I don't even see a detent for the upper. (I'm presuming it's on the other side, but I'd have thought we'd see the wire coming over the top, etc.)

    Doc.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jordan
    replied
    Originally posted by DocsMachine View Post

    -Oh sure, show me up while I'm replying.

    You can see the misalignment problem there- which unfortunately just gets worse as the paint shrinks, but is at least workable in the brass body. You can see in the pic of my backblock how much separation there is between the two bores on the 'Cocker.

    Doc.
    🙂

    It definitely has alignment issues - I believe the owner (it's not mine, I just have it to rebuild) has been told to shoot slowly and deliberately to allow enough time for everything to settle in place.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paintslinger16
    commented on 's reply
    It would be cool to make a gun from the beginning Mushroom 🍄 blank

  • DocsMachine
    replied
    Originally posted by Jordan View Post

    You mean like this?
    -Oh sure, show me up while I'm replying.

    You can see the misalignment problem there- which unfortunately just gets worse as the paint shrinks, but is at least workable in the brass body. You can see in the pic of my backblock how much separation there is between the two bores on the 'Cocker.

    Doc.

    Leave a comment:


  • DocsMachine
    replied
    Do you think a Y or T on the hopper line would be feasible?
    -I've thought about that for years, ever since making the first VT. Short answer, I don't know. You'd think it'd feed, but just like paint jamming in an agitated loader, I can see the stack getting "stuck" at the fork. Would a powered loader help? Dunno. The bottom of the "Y" shaped feed neck necessarily has to have a point on it- maybe not a razor sharp one, obviously, but it needs to be fairly pointy just to induce the paint to roll off to one side or the other.

    One trick I thought of was to have the tube leading in to the fork of the "Y", be wider- as in oval shaped. That way the paint is already starting to 'spread sideways' before it hits the fork.

    Again, would it work? Dunno. I'd like to try it at some point.

    Someone on the forums has a PPS OU with single feed into the top.
    -I'd be interested in seeing that, if true. But, as I said, it'd be easier in a brass body, as the separation between the upper and lower barrels could be a lot less. The fabricated nature of the build, too, would let you do a little "porting" for the upper barrel feed, to help push the too-low upper ball back into the breech. That'd be tough to do in a machined-from-block body.

    ho, space the barrels enough to have a whole ball in between ... that's genus!
    -You have no idea how monstrously tall this thing is already.

    Yeah that’s what I’m thinking. You could make it a pump for simplicity or a Lever action.
    -On this vertical, I'm already thinking it may turn out that it really only works as a pump. There may be too much drag with the upper bolt, and the block may bind.

    On the Vee-Twin configuration, the pump rod placement is basically ideal- right in the center between the two bolts and the cocking rod. With the vertical, it's down and to the side, and I suspect we may get binding issues at semiauto speeds.

    If that does prove to be the case, I figured a second pump rod on the other side to balance the load, and whip up a pump kit for it.

    Doc, for our mutual friend's project----that kind of set up would solved a lot of problems.
    -Near as I can see, there's only the one problem- the side linkage placement- and I've come up with two different solutions to that. As I get closer to finishing his build, I'll pick your brain about some of the details.

    Doc.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jordan
    replied
    Originally posted by DocsMachine View Post
    Yep, I'm not sure even Palmer's tried a single-center feed with his over-under Nastys.

    Doc.
    You mean like this?


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  • cfos00
    replied
    Originally posted by DocsMachine View Post
    I wish I had a fresh update for you ladies and gents- and whatever Mar is- but I've been absolutely slammed, and it looks like I probably will be for the rest of the week.

    So, in lieu of a proper update, I'll let you in on something I've been tinkering with along with the rest, ever since Ecap- a curse be upon his name- mentioned it back at the beginning of the month.



    Will it work? We're gonna find out.

    Doc.
    Doc, for our mutual friend's project----that kind of set up would solved a lot of problems.

    Leave a comment:


  • BrickHaus
    commented on 's reply
    Someone on the forums has a PPS OU with single feed into the top.

  • BrickHaus
    commented on 's reply
    Gotta go dual offset even it it looks a little wonky.

  • Chuck E Ducky
    commented on 's reply
    Yeah that’s what I’m thinking. You could make it a pump for simplicity or a Lever action… wink wink nudge nudge

    Spring feed double barrel lever action Ohhhhh Yeahhh!

  • XEMON
    commented on 's reply
    ho, space the barrels enough to have a whole ball in between ... that's genus!

  • Chuck E Ducky
    replied
    What about if you made the breach 3 balls deep with a small nub detent or oring type detent like ASP use that held a ball between the two breach. You would need a fast force fed but a rotor to keep up If it wasn’t hammered on I bet. You could always turn the torque up on a rotor. Might not like brittle paint or fast speeds but I bet it would work.

    Shoot to balls, bolt back, next 3 pushed into place. It would always hold one in between the to bodies held in place by a detent. Only issue I see is the action would need to be open long enough for it to feed the bottom breach and how do you stop the top ball from taking the path of least resistance down the top breach. Maybe Another detent let the bolt push it into place.

    Leave a comment:


  • XEMON
    commented on 's reply
    Makes sense.
    Do you think a Y or T on the hopper line would be feasible?
    (I'm asking for ... a "friend" :P)
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