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Vee Twin Autococker

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  • DocsMachine
    replied
    WooHoo! I love it! That thing came out sweet.

    ... I have got to get one together and finish that shooting video I promised... six months ago.

    Doc.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lt. head-shot
    replied
    Finally got a chance to shoot The Two-nicorn. Wow. 450 psi, heavy main string but light valve spring, underbore on the freak XL.... shoots like a champ. Literally had to do no tuning just assembled it and set the psi and I was at 290 on the dot. I can't wait to actually use it in game.

    Not the greatest video but here it is in action!

    Leave a comment:


  • SETHZILLA!
    commented on 's reply
    Yeah show it now, I can post pics of it completed and ready for use at my field once i get it back.

  • DocsMachine
    commented on 's reply
    Er, I meant the photos I took before I sent it off. It's been at the anodizers for a while now, I should be hearing back on it hopefully any time.

    Basically, I meant would you like me to show a pic now, or would you prefer to wait 'til it's back from anno, and finished?

    Doc.

  • SETHZILLA!
    commented on 's reply
    would you send me the pic before so I can decide? I love the progress pics, but i feel the gloss black might really show off more of the milling... i dunno?

  • DocsMachine
    replied
    Technically, this one's Number Nine... and it's mine. The others are either still in progress, or off at the anodizers.

    This body ended up with two very minor cosmetic blemishes, so this one became "mine".



    And, as I was waiting for Eatin' Time today, I spent a few hours out in the shop getting it a little further along. Basically just finished the backblock, and made and fitted the bolts and pins.
    She still needs detents, a valve fitted, and the front block finished up, then I can finally slap it together and do a shooting video! (Only six or so months late. )

    Doc.

    Leave a comment:


  • DocsMachine
    commented on 's reply
    First, I have to admit I didn't get it off to the anodizer quite as quickly as I'd hoped. And second, they tell me that they slip my smaller orders in whenever there's space. I don't send in enough parts to justify my own "run"- though fortunately, black is a regular color, so it should be run any time now, if it hasn't already.

    Want me to post a pic of the kit before I sent it out? I think it came out even better than the test-mule.

    Doc.

  • SETHZILLA!
    replied
    Originally posted by DocsMachine View Post

    We'll see one way or the other once I have 'Zilla's back.

    Doc.
    Got any idea on ETA from the annodizer?

    Leave a comment:


  • Siress
    commented on 's reply
    Made some edits to the above post for you. I do hope it's not as pronounced on the others! They're beautiful markers regardless, and awesome machines.

  • DocsMachine
    replied
    Sweet, Woofs! My compliments to Mozak, that'll look great polished and annoed.

    Siress- gotta at least partially disagree with you, there. You can see the periphery of the plug is rounded slightly- no 'acid etch' did that. That's a buffing issue.

    And in this case, being an already-bare body (that is, it wasn't stripped of a previous coat) there's no "etch" step- this isn't painting, we're not prepping it for primer. Preliminary steps are washing and desmut, the desmut strips off whatever thin oxide layer has built up just from the bare metal having been exposed to air. (And, if we really wanted to get pedantic, the process uses a base, not an acid. )

    An any acid bath that could erode the edges of the plugs that much, would also similarly damage threads, making the detents, barrels, pump rod and so on looser and sloppier.

    One body I did years ago, the shop did an "electropolish", or bright-dip. That does actually remove material, albeit very, very minutely, to smooth the part slightly. It removes the "points" of scratches and the like. I used to have photos of that around here somewhere, but the plugged holes were only barely visible as a faint line. Headshot's are far more visible- those were buffed, not done chemically.

    We'll see one way or the other once I have 'Zilla's back.

    Doc.

    Leave a comment:


  • Siress
    replied
    Originally posted by DocsMachine View Post
    -The "plugs" are the same 6061 as the rest of the body. Not the same "billet", of course, but very much the same alloy. You don't start getting coloration issues unless you use different alloys- the famous one being older 'Cocker vertical ASAs. Those I think were made from 2021, and due to the increased copper content, don't take the color the same way. (No issue with black, but gets more obvious with lighter colors.)

    I try to smooth them up as best as I can, but there will always be some trace visible. I will say on Headshot's, it looks to me like the polisher got WAY too aggressive with the buffer.

    The ports can't be easily drilled from underneath (and still have a valve retaining screw, which, with an 11/16" valve, is the only thing holding the valve in place) and if I TIG welded the holes shut, which I could easily do, the welding appears as a "stain" in the anno. Anyone who's ever owned a Blazer, especially one annoed a bright color, knows about the little 'cloud' stain where they TIGged the inner air passages closed after drilling.
    finally, I can use my mat sci degree... *flex*....

    This has nothing to do with buffing. In fact, I'd challenge you to create a crevice with a buffer without the below being true.

    One-two-three sequence here: 1) the filed finish is rough on the feature edges (both ID of hole and OD of pin), causing them to chip more than an abrasive would. Not much , but it counts. 2) those chips, or any edge defect really, are not observable because they are filled in with the fine metal powder being generated and, under those same shearing forces, can pack in tight enough to appear like the bulk material but it's really just superficial particulate. 3) and this is the big one in that it makes this all visible: anodizing requires an acid etch.1 The little particulate have higher surface energy and etch preferentially. It doesn't take much for the particles to lose the tight packing holding them in place, so that superficial particulate falls out - if not immediately then certainly during cleaning/polishing/buffing.

    All of that said, this is still about as good as one can get for such a feature. Everything else Doc said is right on the money.
    1. For those that need clarification, the acid bath electrolysis step is an electrochemical etch of the aluminum part.
    Last edited by Siress; 11-16-2022, 08:45 AM. Reason: Adding clarification for the 'acid etch' comment, and further detail on how a large particle mass can be etched away without over-etching of other features.

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  • woouulf
    replied
    Yummy !

    .
    Last edited by woouulf; 11-15-2022, 11:29 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • DocsMachine
    replied
    A million years ago, I made an "L" stock for an early 'Cocker I had, to mount a tank ring to hold one of the early Paintball Mania FW-71 HPA tanks- the old flat-bottom bottle.



    (Sorry about the size, that pic is literally 25 years old, and dates back to the 640x480 monitor days. I've been meaning to do a fresh photoshoot and write-up of the gun, which I still have. The idea, by the way, was based off of how Dave Youngblood had his set up on some of his guns- and, point in fact, he used the same tank and a very similar stock for the famous ESPN games.)

    Anyway, I didn't have a way to cleanly bend the bar to make the tail, so I made a separate piece, and had a local shop TIG weld it on. The guy did kind of a sloppy job of it (and it later cracked for lack of penetration) and lord only knows what rod he used. But I was able to sand and file it smooth (which admittedly didn't help the strength) and it looked pretty much like one piece when I was done. But, when I got it back from anno:





    The weld is obvious- and in the second photo you can see the crack, which I repaired by putting a screw in from the back. I'm not sure it's so much a difference in density, there shouldn't be a significant difference, really, but it's definitely a difference in alloy.

    In this case, the two bars I used were 6061, and the rod used to weld it was probably 4043. I'm told that 5356 makes a better match, but really, the weld will never be "invisible". I recall Glenn saying they tried several alloys for the Blazer, and settled on the best of the lot, but even those welds are still visible.

    For the Vee-Twin, an option might be to press in a close-fitting pin, and peen it in place. If any of you have watched Clickspring videos, you'll see him do that a lot in brass, and the hole and plug vanish entirely. In this case, however, there's no easy way to support the underside of the tube when the plug is being peened into place, and that the plug is really only being held in by friction.

    If done right, it should be a good deal of friction, and there's no pressure on the backside trying to push it out, but either way, I tend to prefer the security of a mechanically-retained threaded plug.

    Doc.

    Leave a comment:


  • zinger565
    commented on 's reply
    Having flashbacks to my materials science classes...

  • Chuck E Ducky
    commented on 's reply
    Welding changes the density of the material making it take Ano differently even if it’s the same exact material. It’s why patched markers never come out perfect. You could take a piece of the same material tig it together re grain polish and just the heat will make it look different.
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