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Will it go Liquid? ....Different Paintball Guns on Liquid CO2

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  • Meleager7
    commented on 's reply
    i had a feeling the ICD 'cats would be great liquid guns!

  • StrayBlackCat
    replied
    Always wanted a Montneel Mega Z. Lucked into an ICD Puma and it runs great on Siphon. The owners manual even has a section on setting it up. It may even be more efficient than the Mega Z.

    Leave a comment:


  • Meleager7
    commented on 's reply
    I was worried about that too, that my velocity might be affected, but it seemed to be ok. I mean, maybe i lost some efficiency due to a larger than desired volume ahead of the valve, but hard to tell. I just used the stock valve, but used different springs I thought would make sense for a liquid setup. I did end up needing to use a cut down stock mainspring to bring the velocity down
    Last edited by Meleager7; 06-10-2022, 02:20 PM.

  • Seajay
    replied
    Rad! I was wondering if the body space before the valve was going to be an issue with expansion. Are you using the stock valve or the newer EKO valve?

    Leave a comment:


  • Meleager7
    replied
    Quick Update on the the Liquid Spyder Victor II I put together.

    I got my two 20 oz Siphon tanks from Jordan this past weekend, and was able to use the Liquid Spyder at a big game in Ottawa, Ontario

    Only got the tanks filled on the drive up to Ottawa, so I had not had a chance to really tune this gun. I had really no idea how it was gonna go.

    At the field Sunday morning it aired up fine, no leaks.

    Testing at the chrono was a different story! The gun was shooting around 330 fps ! This was with the Warrior Spyder spring kit I had in there, with the heaviest valve spring, and the lightest mainspring. This was with the RVA fully backed out!

    I remembered I had brought some cut spyder mainsprings ( cut for indoor play) in my toolbox, so I did a quick mainspring swap with the cut spring and headed back to the chrono.

    Now the spyder was shooting about 265-270 fps, and turning the rva in a bit i was easily able to get around the 280 mark, and it was consistent!

    I can confirm the claims about liquid co2 consistency! I had to chrono this gun several times throughout the day and I never had to touch the rva again. It just held there at 275- 280 ish all day long. Call me impressed !

    Performance wise, I wasn't really keeping track of the pods I went through on the first tank, but I felt I got a decent amount of shots off of that 20oz, which I ran completely dry.

    One thing I was expecting was more co2 cloud action!?? It kind of just looked like a gun running regular co2 to me......maybe the temperatures ( low to mid 20's Celsius ) had something to do with it. Also I chose the shocktech supafly bolt because it doesn't have orings, and I thought I'd get more co2 cloud effect coming out the back of the gun. That didn't happen either ! So i never really got the whole " wow, what the heck is wrong with that guy's gun !?? " effect I was shooting for!

    I shot the spyder on semi mostly, with some full auto set to 8 bps to avoid chops. I had no chops all day, and just a single barrel break , which I just shot through with no real accuracy issues after a few clearing shots.

    Anyhow, I'm calling my liquid spyder experiment a success!

    Here is a pic of me on the move, with the Liquid Spyder!

    Click image for larger version

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    Leave a comment:


  • Jordan
    commented on 's reply
    I can smell this video. 🙂

  • Hp_lovecraft
    replied
    I dug this out. About 15 years go, I converted a MegaZ to electro, with eyes, etc, but still on liquid co2. This was my first test fire, the battery is just ziptied.
    Its not that interesting, except that I used a short macroline in place of the missing hardline (it had been swapped with a nitrovalve). Anyway, you can see the liquid co2 in the macroline...

    Leave a comment:


  • Brokeass_baller
    commented on 's reply
    I can say I've had great results with my RAP4 aluminum power tube from MCS. Picked it up for my Tornado (because why not?) No tolerance issues.

  • Brokeass_baller
    replied
    Originally posted by Meleager7 View Post
    ...I hope the effect is delicious co2 clouds bursting from all parts of the gun when fired !
    Ah, yes. The delicious scents of cold metal and burp.

    Leave a comment:


  • Brokeass_baller
    commented on 's reply
    I remember reading about those as well. Essentially mechanical Mayhems. They did have a bottom line regulator. But I can't remember how velocity was controlled.

    EDIT: Come to think of it, I think FROGs were closed bolt. So they must be more different from Automags than we remember.

  • MrBarraclough
    commented on 's reply
    I just remembered that there was indeed something that was like an unregulated Automag: the PGI F.R.O.G.

    It was a blowforward with a spring return that regulated velocity by having an adjustable volume dump chamber, as I recall.

  • Brokeass_baller
    commented on 's reply
    I think the problem with Automags and CO2 lies in the on/off (on classic valves anyway). These o-rings shrink substantially when chilled.

    But, I think you have an interesting point. Possibly create an adjustable choke for the dump chamber to control velocity, instead of a regulator. Kind of like a Tippmann. That might be cool.

  • Meleager7
    replied
    Originally posted by Hp_lovecraft View Post

    The main issue is that the thermal cycling tends to cause wear on low-quality plastic parts. An infamous example of this is the Tippmann 98c. Up to the Model-98, Tippmann officially supported siphon tanks. They were an option from the factory, and recommended them. But by the late 90s, many guns were becoming popular that would be damaged if a siphon was accidentally used, so they decided to end all support for siphons. The Model-98 was redesigned as the 98-Custom and used a weaker plastic power-tube. People being people used siphons anyway, and those power tubes cracked.

    When I saw this metal power tube from Trinity , it made me think of your post . Now a liquid 98 Custom can finally be born from icy cold depths!

    https://www.paintballgear.ca/trinity-model-98-tube


    The upgrade for the Trinity Tippmann 98 Metal Power Tube allows for a better seal with the valve to help increase the efficiency of the marker. Direct replacement from the stock. Features: Alum...

    Leave a comment:


  • Meleager7
    commented on 's reply
    Hi HPL, how does Delrin fare with cold temps? I picked a delrin Shocktech supafly bolt to 1.) remove some orings out of the equation and 2.) I hope it creates more co2 cloudy goodness!

    That is great intel on the Rock Regulator and that it can handle liquid! I knew the longer rock regs could deal with some liquid getting in there, but I had no idea they could actually operate fine on it.

    Liquid Autococker next?.....hmmmm

  • Hp_lovecraft
    replied
    Like others said, any non-regulated poppet valve gun should at least function. Some might have a hard time getting below 300fps, needing springs cut, I've found that anything made from the mid 90s on tends to have a large chamber for the valve. This tends to have a negative effect on efficiency when using liquid co2, But thats pretty minor.

    The main issue is that the thermal cycling tends to cause wear on low-quality plastic parts. An infamous example of this is the Tippmann 98c. Up to the Model-98, Tippmann officially supported siphon tanks. They were an option from the factory, and recommended them. But by the late 90s, many guns were becoming popular that would be damaged if a siphon was accidentally used, so they decided to end all support for siphons. The Model-98 was redesigned as the 98-Custom and used a weaker plastic power-tube. People being people used siphons anyway, and those power tubes cracked.

    And that was that. After 2000, no factory supported them and retailers started letting stock run out. Fortunately, easy enough to make. A small issue arose when someone sued a paintball company over a bottle rocket, and many valves have extra holes and grooves cut into them, making them useless for siphon tanks.

    But, one interesting side note- The original Vector was rated to run on siphon. The designer had stated that it was one of the primary design goals. The vector is basically an autococking sterling, with a pneumatic trigger- So a ram, 3-way, and an LPR had to handle liquid. Air Power designed the LPR to be very robust, and vent if any liquid gets into the pneumatics. They got away with that with the C-version, adding an inline regulator. I'm not sure if that version was liquid safe.

    The early Palmer autos were also liquid rated. The original rock had a very strong liquid venting system. Glenn himself had stated that Typhoons and Strokers could run a siphon tanks. Like the Vector, they were designed with the ability to handle liquid, on purpose or accident. By the mid 90s, most people had switched to the non-venting micro Rocks.

    I always found it odd that the Autococker used such a worthless LPR when it came out, yet the Vector, and Typhoon had very well designed ones. But it does beg the question, if an autococker had a rock, could it run liquid?

    Leave a comment:

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