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Velocity as related to paint

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    Velocity as related to paint

    Is anyone else having massive issue maintaining safe limit as well as consistency?

    Hadn't been playing a lot and was sitting on a pile of old (but round) paint. The last couple of weekends I have been having +/- 30 FPS over the chrono and it seems that bore matching is out of the question.

    EDIT for clarity
    The old paint I had was fine. The paint I recently purchased causing the referenced issue.
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    #2
    There are few factors that'll determine shot consistency. 1) quality/consistency of the regulators, 2) proper tuning/setting up of your regs, and 3) quality/consistency of the paint, both in terms of overall roundness and defects, and consistency in size. I would also think about re-setting your regulators. Sometimes an LPR can creep and throw the operating pressure off balance, giving you unstable pressure. What marker and regulators were you using? And what paintballs?
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      #3
      I've had issues like this (though less severe than +/- 30 )basically as far as I can remember. Mostly because my field stocks bad paint. I'll usually Chrono with a string of 5-10 shots, and if 1 or 2 shots are 1 or 2 fps over, then it's fine, so long as the majority of the shots were 10-15 fps under.

      Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

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        #4
        Attempting to match-bore inconsistent sized paint will make velocity consistency issues worse. Having some balls fit tightly in the bore while others roll out the barrel is not what you want to happen. Try underboring or overboring instead.

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          #5
          Fortunately for me the few times I managed to play this year our field paint was really in good form. I will say, however, that all the paint I purchased this year has not had a good shelf life. I have been storing paint in all the ways you are supposed to and within 2-3 weeks the stuff is drastically different.

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            #6
            I've experienced this recently with GI Custom blend. Now it might have been old or heat cycled too much (field paint) but it was crazy inconsistent in size. Through both my emek and brand new LV1.6 it was +/-35 FPS while fresh Valken Graffiti through the same exact guns was +/-8 FPS.
            Last edited by ChuckLove; 11-02-2020, 07:08 PM.
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            • ATBen
              ATBen commented
              Editing a comment
              That's South Korean quality manufacturing right there.

            #7
            Lots of stuff shut down due to Covid. Paint sat in shipping containers on a dock for way longer then normal. This is why you are seeing the inconsistency’s. the paint has sat longer been heat cycled more and stored in non climate controlled shipping containers for long periods of time. First shipment of Valken was crap to. After it was shot threw the new batch has been much better. GI knew it was going out so they shipped crap and did not care. There paint is generally garbage except for there high end paint that has one of the worst shelf life’s out there.

            Paint quality is very localized. It’s all got to do with how it was shipped and stored. In the North East Valken makes the best paint hands down. It comes in right in NJ so it spends less time in transit. I still miss Redemption. The Pro Works but I preferred the bright shell of regular redemption and it was just a tad harder shell then the pro. But still had that awesome fill that really spread out over a lens. The Redemption seemed to have less air in the ball they were always filled to the brim. You could tell the difference comparing them side-by-side. It would fly so true and broke beautifully. I would pay 2x the cost to get that back.

            I wish there was a small American company that would make good quality paint with a good consistent large bore. Even if they charged double for it. Nobody makes large bore quality paint anymore.

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              #8
              Chuck hit it on the head. I’d recommend going straight overbore when the paint fluctuates like that. Your efficiency will be crap, but should pick up more consistency

              Comment


              • Chuck E Ducky

                Chuck E Ducky

                commented
                Editing a comment
                Over bore is definitely the answer. It can be hard with certain setups tho. Rollouts will only increase you velocity swings. I like to over bore anything with functional detents and bulk air systems. I have certain setups I won’t shoot bad paint threw it’s just not worth the headache. I always keep the Emek in the car JIC that thing seems to shoot anything. And if the paint is crap you can always just make up for it with some follow up shots.

              #9
              Absolutely, good points, guys. Trying to bore match bad paint is a fool's errand. In fact, there a reason why professionals overbore. 1) limits barrel breakage too when using half shell'd PB's, 2) efficiency upside is negligible, 3) if using lesser quality paint, it can create inconsistent pressure due to the varying sized PB's. Bore matching was always gimmicky and designed to up-sell you to the more expensive kit offerings. Now that being said, traditionally, you could overbore safely with .688-689 for 99% of the paint out there, but now that paint has gotten smaller, you can often times overbore safely with .684-.685 bore sizes.
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                #10
                I normally DO overbore. Most of the time I use a 689 or 91 according to the paint with everything but a cocker. The issue here being I can't make velocity at all, unless I drop down to something like an 82 or smaller. Then I see ranges in consistency from ~240 FPS to ~270.
                I was thinking it was (in particular) the marker I was using. I went ahead and did a complete rebuild, new reg seat, everything...same issue.
                I had some old Marbs I was given to shoot at deer with. Hard as a rock, nice and round, unsuitable to shoot at humans, and the velocity spikes come within ~10FPS.
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                • ChuckLove

                  ChuckLove

                  commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I've seen this recently as well. I'm thinking it possibly has to do with insufficient amount of fill in the balls. Meaning they weight significantly different causing massive fluctuations.

                • Chuck E Ducky

                  Chuck E Ducky

                  commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Agreed it sounds to me like GI unloading the last of their paint. "box it up, get it out kind of thing"

                #11
                Originally posted by punkncat View Post
                I normally DO overbore. Most of the time I use a 689 or 91 according to the paint with everything but a cocker. The issue here being I can't make velocity at all, unless I drop down to something like an 82 or smaller. Then I see ranges in consistency from ~240 FPS to ~270.
                I was thinking it was (in particular) the marker I was using. I went ahead and did a complete rebuild, new reg seat, everything...same issue.
                I had some old Marbs I was given to shoot at deer with. Hard as a rock, nice and round, unsuitable to shoot at humans, and the velocity spikes come within ~10FPS.
                It sounds like you narrowed it down to the paint. If the same exact marker and setup is shooting consistently with quality paint, then it must be the PB's.
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                  #12
                  Originally posted by the_matrix_guy View Post

                  It sounds like you narrowed it down to the paint. If the same exact marker and setup is shooting consistently with quality paint, then it must be the PB's.
                  I figured as much, was just curious as to others experience with this as of late in a larger "sample".
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                    #13
                    Yeah, as Chuck E Ducky alluded, logistical issues related to CV are probably the culprit. It would be better to buy paint locally and inspect it personally if you are able to.
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                      #14
                      Originally posted by the_matrix_guy View Post
                      Yeah, as Chuck E Ducky alluded, logistical issues related to CV are probably the culprit. It would be better to buy paint locally and inspect it personally if you are able to.
                      I hope that it ends up with Social being supplied. I am fairly sure field owner won't deal with Valken.
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                        #15
                        Folks can call barrel sizing gimicky but personally, actually doing some bore sizing (up or down) has been hugely beneficial for my accuracy, consistency, not to mention chronoing at events with ease. Here in the PNW the paint at events varies greatly in size and quality.

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                        • Chuck E Ducky

                          Chuck E Ducky

                          commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I agree you just need good paint to do it.

                        • Chuck E Ducky

                          Chuck E Ducky

                          commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Nothing shoots better then good paint with a good bore match. Some markers need a good bore match to function properly. My personal rule of thought is anything with bulk HPA/Co2 and functional detents I over bore. Buy over bore I mean a hand full of paint rolls threw without catching. My Stock Class markers get paint to bore matched as best as paint will allow. My phantom with ASP detents is my only SC marker I can shoot bad paint threw. Because the detent eliminates rollouts. Point is it depends on the setup of over / underbore is the best choice. Having a good barrel kit is definitely worth having.

                        • Arthur
                          Arthur commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Yep, some guns its really important. I own a Dye DAM which is well known for allowing too much air escape in the breach. Bore sizing paint is an absolute must if you want to get it over 265 FPS consistently.
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