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    #31
    My experience was quite different working at a shop. A significant portion of it's business was the selling and installing of aftermarket accessories. Heck, the guy who owned the place would sell certain guns A COST (DM3 for example) since he knew he'd make more money accessorizing it down the line. It was when the local players attitudes changed from "aftermarket accessories are cool" to "aftermarket accessories are for newbs" that business began to drop. Definitely contributed to the place going out of business. (there were other factors of course, but this post WILL be too long as it is πŸ˜‰).

    And I'm all for guns performing better out of the box. Better efficiency, more reliability, easier maintenance, all great! Yes, more of that. But that's NOT what we're talking about. We're talking about Just Another BlowBack. I'm assuming no major redesign in valve design, or bolt/hammer configuration. I'm speaking SPECIFICALLY about the ASA and grip frame.

    Seriously, I don't see it. Why is this....


    ...a better design than this...



    ???

    Both basic blowbacks. Let's assume similar build quality (though history gives the Azodin a bit of an edge of course), lets assume similar shot performance and efficiency. Let's momentarily ignore the better top cocking quick strip bolt on the Azodin (seriously blowback designers, it's such an OBVIOUS feature). I'm talking just the stuff below the bottom tube. Please, explain to someone who seriously does NOT get it, why on earth you'd choose the top one over the bottom?

    Comment


    • MrKittyCatMeowFace

      MrKittyCatMeowFace

      commented
      Editing a comment
      Id choose the top one. Mount a feedtube on top (regular stock class size, maybe spring feed it). 6-4inch barrel. With 6in, i can have freak bored, or i could just run one of docs tips on on a freak back. Lastly id need to figure out how to power it. 3.5oz brass eagle tank wouldn't be to bad as it is, but id prefer it point the other way. Id need to figure how id want it positioned forward but its definitely not that tricky. My other alternative is mounting a quick changer. With That, i have lots of options.

    #32
    Objectively you are right, of course. It's more or less a fashion trend. Why does Old Navy redesign the same basic tube sock every year? Beats me.
    Dulce et decorum est pro comoedia mori

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      #33
      If we are in fact ignoring the build quality and features you mentioned (Azodin's cocker threaded barrel and metal feedneck being important ones IMO), I probably would choose the top over the bottom because hoseless guns are so much more convenient. Not so much that hoses can snag stuff, but disassembly is easier and you don't have to worry about macro fittings leaking. I've had Azodins, eNMey's, and later Spyders have hoses leak out of the box. Simple fix yes, but not a great look when you put air on a gun to demo for a customer and it doesn't work. Not going to be an issue with a hoseless gun. Of course that depends on construction, but when done properly it's a very nice feature to have.

      The point of the guns being better out of the box thing is that, back in the day, people were incentived to upgrade their guns. I don't think people WANTED to upgrade guns, so much as the HAD to. It became a "for newbs" thing because guns became good out the box, and upgrading them frequently decreased their performance. It was something newbs did because they were conned by store owners wanting to make money selling accessories. Even before the time when guns didn't actually need upgrades, half of them didn't do what they claimed to. Barrels, bolts, expansion chambers, volumizers (in some contexts), all lies to make money.

      It's more likely that a player will stay in the sport if they buy a gun that's plug and play than buy a gun and then be forced to dump a bunch of money into. Besides, the margins on most of the accessories were garbage anyway. It's better for players to spend their money actually playing than not playing so they can buy a barrel kit. And again, 90% of players just want a gun that works so they can play. Most people who play paintball might play a couple times a year. That's who these guns are for in the first place, not the modders. They can buy a cocker.

      Looking at it from a totally different angle, you kinda nailed it with the "Just another blowback" line. They have to differentiate it from everything else, or there's no reason to bring it to market in the first place.


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        #34
        It might be all right. Certainly at the low end price point for younger/newer players.
        Personally, I think it's fugly, like a high school freshmans first attempt at 3d printing.

        Comment


          #35
          No one has mentioned that it uses Spyder threads
          most new barrel are autococker threaded
          also I think that barrel looks very similar to planet eclipse stock barrel

          Comment


            #36
            Originally posted by nobbie333 View Post
            No one has mentioned that it uses Spyder threads
            most new barrel are autococker threaded
            also I think that barrel looks very similar to planet eclipse stock barrel
            Actually according to Air Challenger, they sell a cocker threaded version. It's on their website.

            Comment


              #37
              How do these people even stay in business.

              Comment


                #38
                Originally posted by Arthur View Post
                How do these people even stay in business.
                Because THEY MAKE IT POWERFUL!!

                Comment


                  #39
                  Originally posted by Arthur View Post
                  How do these people even stay in business.
                  Probably contract work. Making guns/parts for other manufacturers when not doing/licensing in house designs. Lots of overseas companies also just do general manufacturing, not just manufacturing in a specific field.

                  ICD does something similar (but obviously at a higher quality). They also do quite a bit of prototyping.

                  Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

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