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Dye DFF-20 Lazarus Valve

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    #46
    Here’s a little write up for the new Dye valve:

    I’m excited for this new valve, just using something that’s new and intuitive is fun to build on its own. I haven’t really been a fan of 11/16 because it wasn’t very beneficial for main pump players like myself. CCM and ACParts lowers always had the smoothest pump stroke for 9/16 valve lowers.

    I think this will benefit pump players a little more because operating at a lower or higher pressure for a mech and having the IVG 2-3 turns in or flush doesn’t really make a difference when your just pulling a trigger other than just bragging rights. It might be better for efficiency but nobody is trying to carry 12 pods while shooting a cocker, so I don’t think that really matters unless you need that.

    Now for pump this can make a difference because the flow that the valve is allowing through, you are able to have the IVG flush with a very light spring (compared to a heavier one) which allows for a smoother lighter pump stroke and the lower reg pressure definitely gives it a different softer sound signature.

    I’ve been testing this for the past few days and have been playing with a lot of different spring/hammer combinations. When I set up my 9/16 standard pumps I’m generally at 3-350 PSI and 2-1/2 turns in on the IVG for 285 FPS. When I first installed this valve in my 11/16 blank body I put a CCM hammer and spring in and set the reg to 190 PSI with the IVG flush. Dry firing one shot made a massive farting sound so I knew the hammer was bouncing, I tried a heavier spring and it was better but still a little farty. I put in a stock WGP hammer that was lighter and tried both a heavier and lighter spring and it was better than the CCM but it was still a bit farty and FPS was still low at those settings.

    So I decided to make an aluminum hammer so that it’s lighter than the stainless, threw it in with the lighter spring and the sound signature was a perfect pop, no farting and back up to velocity with IVG flush and reg pressure at 190 PSI. I’m really liking this hammer so far as well so I’m going to get it hard anodized and then continue testing on an anodized body to prevent wear on either surfaces and see if it’s something to bring to market after more testing. Since it’s mostly the weight that’s beneficial I may make a titanium one.

    All in all I think it’s a cool new valve for sure, it’s still new but I think you should definitely get one to tinker with and find the perfect combination of what you’re looking for, it’s what makes building fun. Again, for mechs I think the difference between this and a stock valve is a different sound signature because of lower reg pressure and better efficiency if that matters to you. For pumps it’s beneficial to be able to have a lighter pump stroke since you can have a lighter main spring and the IVG flush and the different sound signature as well.

    I’ve been seeing people having issues getting these to work with some other WGP bodies I think some the diameter is too small in that area or the predrill depth is too shallow for the blue tip. If you want a new body check out mozakmachine.com and the front page has the “Build Your Own Body” feature.
    Attached Files

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    • Chuck E Ducky

      Chuck E Ducky

      commented
      Editing a comment
      I would love to see results of a titanium hammer and super light spring pump setup.

    • Brokeass_baller

      Brokeass_baller

      commented
      Editing a comment
      Titanium is kinda moot. A 1" cube of titanium and a 1" cube of aluminum are very close in weight. Titanium gets it's weight savings by being stronger, and can therefore be machined thinner.

    • Chuck E Ducky

      Chuck E Ducky

      commented
      Editing a comment
      But then you wouldn’t get to say it’s got a titanium hammer. Also I don’t think I want a hammer made out of aluminum I don’t see it being very durable. But if they are close in weight I bet with a lil math it would make a good prototype material.

    #47
    Great info! I’m less than patiently waiting for mine to arrive. I have two pumps ready to go to for testing. It’s helpful to have an idea for the spring and hammer weights so I can skip the tedious part and start shooting.
    Cuda's Feedback

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      #48

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        #49
        Will the Lazarus valve work in an EGO 7?

        Comment


        • imped4now
          imped4now commented
          Editing a comment
          Judging by the cutaway diagram in the manual, it will as long as the bore is 11/16" and the ram stroke plays nicely with the valve positioning.

        #50
        I received mines and decided to shove it in my modded Blazer. Click image for larger version

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        • Jackson

          Jackson

          commented
          Editing a comment
          Did it work?

        • Kit

          Kit

          commented
          Editing a comment
          A touch louder and a bit lower velocity than the morph valve. Velocity is probably because of the bigger front on the dye valve and my blazer already fighting for space with both valves.

        #51
        Tried putting one in my Meteor last night. Valve guide plug is to large for the recess on the valve. Trying to source a different one that I can make work. I thought this might be an issue. Might even have to enlarge the cut on the valve itself.

        Comment


          #52
          Originally posted by Shecki View Post
          Tried putting one in my Meteor last night. Valve guide plug is too large for the recess on the valve. Trying to source a different one that I can make work. I thought this might be an issue. Might even have to enlarge the cut on the valve itself.
          You have options. 5/16-24

          Comment


          • Roger7pball

            Roger7pball

            commented
            Editing a comment
            Ah got ya.

          • Shecki
            Shecki commented
            Editing a comment
            Actually, no....I was in fact referring to the set screw that holds the valve in place and not the red tube. I have touched base with Fabrice on this and he is going to pick up a Lazarus down at Cup and possibly machine some set screws that will work with the Lazarus. The red tube was a non-issue....gun aired up and fired just fine with the red tube in there as I figured it would. I just don't have any confidence in the lip of a cupped set screw to hold the valve in there with a hammer hitting it open repeatedly. From the looks of one of his IG posts...it looks like he's designed a new redtube as well that will help flow with the Lazarus also.

          • superman

            superman

            commented
            Editing a comment
            Now that you mention it. I think Angry paintball mentioned the same thing on another cocker. sounds like they should have included the screw.

          #53
          Originally posted by Shecki View Post
          Tried putting one in my Meteor last night. Valve guide plug is to large for the recess on the valve. Trying to source a different one that I can make work. I thought this might be an issue. Might even have to enlarge the cut on the valve itself.
          Man, I'd be out in the garage on the bench grinder making that plug shorter before you could pull out your phone to make this post.

          Regardless, I wouldn't modify the valve. Screws are easy to mess with and cheap to replace. Not so much with the valve body

          Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

          I use Tapatalk which does NOT display comments. If you want me to see it, make it a post not a comment.

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          Comment


            #54
            I was about to ask here if anyone had tried it in a meteor yet.

            Wonder if an updated red chamber could be made that allows the valve to be installed.
            www.armorypaintball.com

            Comment


            • superman

              superman

              commented
              Editing a comment
              i reread the comment and now im not sure if he is referring to the red chamber. either way i am sure it can be fixed to work.

            #55
            So I drilled and reamed the lower tube of a pre 2k cocker I have. Plugged the front so I can use the original front block.

            It's shooting 320fps at 230psi with reballs. I'm running a delrin hammer from the morph valve and blue madman hammer spring. I'm getting a little bit of farting but that's the lightest hammer spring I have.

            Who makes the lightest hammer springs?
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            Attached Files

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            • latches109

              latches109

              commented
              Editing a comment
              is that an original resin handle Bondhus Allen wrench?

              I did a decent amount of testing. The lower pressures of 160-190 is possible but wildly inconsistent for semi -I used 3 different regs and two tanks to rule out those variables. On the trilogy 190-210 was a lot better. That blue madman is too strong, currently using a 1.75” light mainspring IVG flush with morph hammer @190psi. It’s shooting consistent ~305fps +-3 but doesn’t feel as good as a 30g hammer and a pump return spring. The heavier hammer has zero kick, but maxed out at 250fps. Shooting reball also -they will shoot +-1fps.
              ​​​​​​​

            • Brokeass_baller

              Brokeass_baller

              commented
              Editing a comment
              I second SPLS springs.

            • imped4now
              imped4now commented
              Editing a comment
              You may need to spec a "non-paintball" spring. I've spec'd one on McMaster Carr and can report back with the PN#.

            #56
            Put mine into a KP3. Works pretty good. Waiting on a chrono to show up to tune it completely. Seemed to have useable velocity at about 150psi.

            Comment


            • Impactfour

              Impactfour

              commented
              Editing a comment
              That's really cool to hear. I've always liked the kp3 platform. Having more options to modify it is nice.

            • Slowzrally
              Slowzrally commented
              Editing a comment
              Yeah, its nice to be able to expand any blowback style platform past basic mods. I am excited to get it dialed in and see final numbers.
              Last edited by Slowzrally; 10-25-2023, 06:23 AM.

            • Menso

              Menso

              commented
              Editing a comment
              Did you ever get those numbers?

            #57
            Guess I am throwing a new valve in my trilogy

            Comment


              #58
              I put a Lazarus valve in my empire resurrection and tested it out today. I am using an inception designs universal hammer with an unknown spring. With the IVG flush and the HPR set at 175 PSI I was able to main a very constant 285 FPS.

              I had an Inception design high flow valve in it before, i had the IVG 2 turns in and the HPR set at 250 PSI to get to a constant 285 FPS.

              The marker shoots very smooth and I am impressed with everything.

              Comment


                #59
                Got mine in my trilly pump today. Slice pump kit and SLPS hammer spring. Just dry firing this thing is smooth, and such a crisp shot. Can't wait to field test.

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                  #60
                  Anyone have any efficiency numbers yet? Specifically around 12g.

                  Thinking of putting one in a empire sniper

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                  • Brokeass_baller

                    Brokeass_baller

                    commented
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                    Quote him, don't comment. He can't see comments.

                  • Araphel

                    Araphel

                    commented
                    Editing a comment
                    It would have to be run regulated. The seals are all Buna, and the u-cup being a type of "blown directional seal", straight co2 pressure is likely to destroy it in short order.

                  • Chuck E Ducky

                    Chuck E Ducky

                    commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I don’t think you can run these on Co2. It’s going to expand the stock orings. You would have to change them out to something less permeable than bunna and hope that it still seals properly. I’m sure it can be done but not the way it comes out of the box. Definitely going to need to regulate it. Co2 starts at like 820 ish and goes up with temperature. Guys are running sub 200s with this setup.
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