mcarterbrown.com  

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-21-2014, 09:46 PM   #1 (permalink)
Machinist
 
KPCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Michigan
Send a message via AIM to KPCS Send a message via Yahoo to KPCS

AGD Pump Kit discussion thread

OK here is the deal.
I took the Automag pump kit design and made it fit the Autococker.
I made like 25 kit's thinking they would sell as a alternative to CCM's kit.
Well it's not doing as well as I thought.

Here is what the kit look like :


Now every time I post these kit up for sale, someone says I should/or will you make a Automag pump kit.
Last time I was AO there was like 2 or 3 guys making the pump kit for the Automag already. One guy make aluminum pump handle. There price were like $165.00 to $200.00 for the kit's I think.

Now not to get everyone's hope up I want to see just how many are really really into these pump kit's.
I already went through this on the Custom Cocker forum on the Free Flow back bock nightmare. Everyone wanted them and got stuck with them and lost my behind on them.
I don't want to go though that again.

So this post is to just see who or just how many want or would like really like to see these made.
Now If someone is making these already, I do not want to take any business away from them.

Please let talk about this.

Ken W
https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/kpcs-customs/
__________________
KPCS
https://www.facebook.com/KPCSpb
I'm just a glorified drill press operator.
I have come here to chew bubblegum & kick @$$ and I'm all out of bubblegum ......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jPG_JEyt-M

Last edited by KPCS; 01-17-2015 at 11:58 AM.
KPCS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 10:08 PM   #2 (permalink)
mag shooter
 
superman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Charleston, SC

honestly from someone that has been around for awhile and been following the pump mag stuff. unless you plan to commit to selling pump kits for years and the service required to make them work i would not do it. people will come to you wanting you to mill there rail and body. Im not saying that you are not qualified, just saying that people will probably be messaging you for the next 5+ years asking you to mill rails, bodies and make pump kits. shooting you a pm on fb to chat.


xm15

these kits were a great starter kit. a cheap way to get peoples feet wet. but it lacked on the seller side. dropped off the planet and people still wanted them even though other kits were better.

agd kits

great from the factory.but rubbed ule and minimag bodies

cerberus kits

almost exact copies of the agd kit. some came with ule milling some were aluminum and others were made from old agd stock.

rainman kits

gen1: had the set screw keeping the pump arm on the guide rod.
gen 2: no issues
gen 3: all kinds of issues, pump plates drilled crooked, handles not matching pump plates properly, pump rods didnt always match agd spec.

some how the quality issues keep being overlooked.
__________________
I buy Automags and Parts: if you need cash shoot me a pm

My shop page: Bearded Works

feedback(https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/f...-feedback.html)
superman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 10:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
AC Shooter
 
kjcent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Texas

Like superman said, as long as you're willing to mill the rails and bodies then I'd say go for it. I'm really happy with the 2 pump kits I bought from you. I'm sorry that they are not selling well. I'd buy a mag kit from you, my rail and body would need to be milled though.
kjcent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 11:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
Post Whore
 
Cyco-Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011

agd pump rods...can you make them? would they be complete kits? all parts / springs / mounting hardware included? people would want a drop-in kit...no hunting for mounting hardware / wave springs / bumpers.

if you don't want to be left with stock, you'll probably have to do it like the ao custom parts orders...production does not start until you have "x" orders in, and people either pay up-front or put a deposit down.

finally, the quality needs to be there. they need to be solid, look good, and work reliably.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha434 View Post
Barrels are like girls... Some people are just happy to have one that looks good. Or even one that everyone else likes. Other people want a tight, accurate bore to run their balls through.
Cyco-Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2014, 01:51 AM   #5 (permalink)
MCB Member
 
rgunn4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006

I am with superman. The demand is there but its a huge commitment. Rainman has been making them the most recently and his still have a good resale. Yeah the last run had some flaws but the fact that he did 3 runs shows that there was demand for them.

To save you some head ache you could do the pre-order method and make a few extra for sales down the road.

Personally I might be interested even though I already have 2 pump mags. If its a good design and the price is right then it might be a good investment with good resale value down the road .
__________________

RGUNN4 CURRENT ARSENAL
rgunn4 = Sk8ermog on AO and PBnation
AO - FEEDBACK
MCB - FEEDBACK
rgunn4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2014, 11:37 PM   #6 (permalink)
Rec Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2013

Adding to the others' thoughts, the "demand" in the market could very well be a result of the currently very limited (rare and by extension expensive) supply. Like other specialty mag parts in the past, create a supply and suddenly shortly thereafter the "demand" dries up once the initial rush of buyers get what they wanted. Maybe take a look at how the KAM 86 frames have been selling lately, or how Luke has put up interest/order threads for various parts as maybe examples of how to make "just enough" parts without being stuck with a pile of wasted materials/labor after.

Considering your current sniper kit, if it was built off of the original AGD kit, could you repurpose some of the parts already made if they are interchangeable and save some cost if the sniper kits aren't moving very fast?

Regarding milling services and such, as long as you make sure your kit is completely to AGD spec, Luke has had the milling available with a quick turnaround for as long as I've been on AO, so as long as your QC to that spec stays good, no worries about having to field milling services you might not want to do.

As to complete, drop-in setups, the pump rod, wave spring, and maybe the bumper are the two sticking points. The pump rods I think you would have to make (I think a while back another member had a very small run of them made?), and this is again somewhere staying tightly to AGD spec would pay dividends. The springs are available commercially (BigE recently mused on the demand for someone to finally pony up for a complete order of these instead of individuals continuously pirating "sample" springs from the manufacturer). The bumpers, I think, people have been modifying from AGD stock parts up to now, so not sure if that might be a challenge in production. I don't think the other kit providers included bumpers with their kits, but I might be wrong?

Overall, I would say that yes, there are some folks that want them, but mag folks who spend money on custom parts are VERY picky about said parts.


Unrelated to the mag kit discussion, I don't know a lot about cockers/snipers. Does your current kit work with pre 2K or 2K+ setups (if I'm even asking the question right)?
chrome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2014, 02:20 AM   #7 (permalink)
mag shooter
 
superman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Charleston, SC

Everyone that has produced pump kits has sold them with guide rods and wave springs to answer your question. Most sold with bumpers too.
__________________
I buy Automags and Parts: if you need cash shoot me a pm

My shop page: Bearded Works

feedback(https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/f...-feedback.html)
superman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2014, 12:44 PM   #8 (permalink)
MCB Member
 
Spider!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Houston, TX

Quote:
Originally Posted by superman View Post
honestly from someone that has been around for awhile and been following the pump mag stuff. unless you plan to commit to selling pump kits for years and the service required to make them work i would not do it. people will come to you wanting you to mill there rail and body. Im not saying that you are not qualified, just saying that people will probably be messaging you for the next 5+ years asking you to mill rails, bodies and make pump kits. shooting you a pm on fb to chat.
...
The rail milling is the hard part of a pump mag. You can do a decent dremel job on an old stainless body to open it up, but the rails are tough. If you filter through many of the rail milling and rod rubbing troubles, you will see where Rainman would mill his rails a little wider than the AGD spec to avoid binding on common stock size pump rods and some of us would go to slightly smaller brass rods to get that gap on AGD size rod slots.

If you don't make the slot to fit your rod or vise versa, you should probably plan on being able to mill a little wide or say you will only mill rails for your pump kits.
__________________
My Feedback

some things are stickier than others
Spider! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2014, 12:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
mag shooter
 
superman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Charleston, SC

Rainman mills his larger because his angle doesn't match the AGD spec and has several pump plates that are different.

The best would be to exactly match the AGD spec.
__________________
I buy Automags and Parts: if you need cash shoot me a pm

My shop page: Bearded Works

feedback(https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/f...-feedback.html)
superman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2014, 10:47 AM   #10 (permalink)
I like Guns and Cigars.
 
maggot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: MO

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider! View Post
The rail milling is the hard part of a pump mag. You can do a decent dremel job on an old stainless body to open it up, but the rails are tough. If you filter through many of the rail milling and rod rubbing troubles, you will see where Rainman would mill his rails a little wider than the AGD spec to avoid binding on common stock size pump rods and some of us would go to slightly smaller brass rods to get that gap on AGD size rod slots.

If you don't make the slot to fit your rod or vise versa, you should probably plan on being able to mill a little wide or say you will only mill rails for your pump kits.
That's only b/c his third run of pump kits was fubar'd. People were so desperate for kits, they were willing to overlook the issues.

I'd buy a KPCS pump kit.
maggot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  mcarterbrown.com » Paintball » The Armory » Air Gun Designs

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO
© MCB Network LLC