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Old 12-13-2010, 02:59 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yes I'm aware about co2 frosting, I've been doing my own fills with the stuff off my own bulk tanks for a decade now. But it specifically sucks heat out because the liquid is boiling into a gas. The leak wasn't from the fill nipple. It was from the pin valve. If the O-ring in the pin valve has worn out, after only at most, 25 times on and off the gun... then the quality is worse than I thought already.
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Old 12-13-2010, 03:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
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If your tank gets cold when you're venting, you're using low-quality air.



About half the guys at the woods field yesterday didn't have covers on their fiber hpa tanks. I don't get that. I've had one fail the visual hydro test due to a chip in the clearcoat.
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Old 12-13-2010, 03:07 PM   #13 (permalink)
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And on the opposite end I have had well over a dozen ninja tank regs on various tanks (including ninja's) and never had a single problem... But I know if I ever DID have a problem it would be cake-work to Email ninja to have their industry known customer service team take care of it.

The "rattling" you are talking about is 100% normal on any empty HPA tank. You can actually see the pin lift and lower if you shake an empty tank.

As for the clearcoat- I was lucky to find one of their now discontinued 49/45 tanks and I have no had it in use for almost 2 years. During that time I have played tournaments, woodsball, indoor, and basically every conceivable form of paintball with nothing more then a blackstar buttcover. I won't like and say after 2 years that the tank is pristine, but the only "damage" I've seen to the clearcoat is scuffing.

As for performance, are you possibly using a low pressure reg on a high pressure gun? HPA is a different animal then CO2, but by far it should be many times more reliable especially in changing temperatures.
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Old 12-13-2010, 03:20 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Nope, HP regged tank on HP gun. The store I got it from is closed mondays so I'll go by there tommorow and see what they say. Still haven't heard a good reason for why the regulator would blow the burst disc while filling a tank that's still well below its designed pressure. I actually note with some amusement how most CO2 tanks now use 3k burst discs while HPA tanks still run 1.8k discs at the fill port part of the regulator. Scuffs and scratches in a clearcoat are one thing, but I've got a chip missing that's about 30mm˛ in size. For the metric-challenged, that's about two tic-tacs, lying on their sides next to each other.
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Old 12-13-2010, 03:21 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeEight View Post
Yes I'm aware about co2 frosting, I've been doing my own fills with the stuff off my own bulk tanks for a decade now. But it specifically sucks heat out because the liquid is boiling into a gas. The leak wasn't from the fill nipple. It was from the pin valve. If the O-ring in the pin valve has worn out, after only at most, 25 times on and off the gun... then the quality is worse than I thought already.
I did not say it was leaking from the pin valve. I just stated that it may have loosened due to normal wear on the outside of the o-ring. I suppose wear was a bad term to use, more like compressed to shape of the internal bore of the fill nipple. AGAIN, this is completely normal for an empty tank and in no way affect is function or performance.
The COMPRESSed air will ALSO 'suck heat out' as well due to the RAPIDLY expanding GAS causing a thermo dymanic reaction freezing moisture in the air. It's the same efect as water beads forming on a glass, only to a far greater extent.
I did not even mention the pin valve at all. I understand where the leak is coming from. The first time it vented is most likely what led to the continued problem though. A simple call/e-mail to ninja will likely solve the issue. They have exceptional custome service.
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Old 12-13-2010, 04:02 PM   #16 (permalink)
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As the saying goes, you get what you paid for and Ninja regs are less than half the price of say, CP regs.
Sorry, don't buy the logic. So a $20 Timex watch with a quartz movement should keep poorer time than a $12k Rolex?

I guess I'm not convinced that anything you've cited here directly points to a problem with Ninja's product...a product which hundreds of others consider a best in class product.

1. As others note...the rattle is your fill valve piston jostling in the absence of pressure. Which is normal.
2. No real point debating whether or not a chip occurred "too easily"...you damaged it, full stop
3. Venting your tank at full blast is arguably not using the product as intended...wouldn't be surprised to see ANY tank having issues such as a burst disk blowing or oring damaged.
4. Any problems with fills raise questions related to your local fill equipment...again, not the fault of the manufacturer.

Ninja will fix anything that's actually wrong with their product. But they cannot fix someone's negative view of their product...whether that view is held correctly or in error!
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Old 12-13-2010, 04:10 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
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As the saying goes, you get what you paid for and Ninja regs are less than half the price of say, CP regs.
CP is trash, I can't for the life of me understand why everyone likes running around with tampon applicators sticking out the bottoms of their guns.



Hate CP regs. As a matter of fact, even if I'm interested in a gun and I see CP stuff I look the other way, that's how much I dislike their regs.

But back to topic.

Call Ninja, they will make it right. Without being there I can't say what happened and it wouldn't be fair to claim it was user error. Their regs are quite good, but you're right about their coating. I've seen quite a few comments that lead me to believe that aspect to be suspect.

I would say their clear coat is the only weakness to the whole system, but that can be offset by using a decent tank cover.
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Old 12-13-2010, 04:25 PM   #18 (permalink)
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With a ninja reg, you can take it all apart by hand. My pin stayed depressed after a little shooting outside. Went online, checked how to take it apart, took it apart lubed all the rings, pins back to normal, and i changed the pressure output to cause less wear on my gun...
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Old 12-13-2010, 04:57 PM   #19 (permalink)
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First off:
I would get in contact with Ninja regarding the issues you are having.
Blowing out the LP (1.8k) burst disk means that there is definitely wrong with your tank reg. Either the reg seat or o-ring near the reg seat are usually the culprits when you get that problem.
The leaking at the pin is caused by the reg pin being bent or the seal on the pin having some damage on it.
Ninja should be able to hook you up with the parts that you need.

Anytime you are quickly depressurizing any tank, it is going to cool off. It does the opposite effect as you "hot filling" a tank. I have had to vent the pressure out of tanks to work on regulators and had them frost up to some extent
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Old 12-13-2010, 06:14 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Yes I'm aware about co2 frosting, I've been doing my own fills with the stuff off my own bulk tanks for a decade now. But it specifically sucks heat out because the liquid is boiling into a gas.


no. There is no liquid boiling into a gas, and causing heat. There is energy associated with transferring liquid or gas to another location, and that is the reason for the heat.

When you fill a CO2 tank you are transfering liquid from one tank to another It will not change states. That is why you will weigh how much is transfered, and in the summer are required to chill the tank the CO2 is going into. When you HPA never gets to liquid state.
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