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Old 05-11-2012, 05:22 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I've thought about it.
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Old 05-11-2012, 06:40 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Last I checked, the market is driven by money, and there is plenty of that to be made here.
You're entirely right, the market is driven by money, but I think you're mistaken as to how much money there is to be made on a third generation of MQ valve.

You have to understand the economics here. So let us compare.

For a few hundred dollars you can buy a complete modern poppet gun that just works. Any kid can walk into the store with a fist full of dollars and leave with one of these. This makes gun manufacturers happy, because there are lots of people with a fist full of dollars that just want a gun that works. This means that the margin on a complete gun can be fairly low. They'll quickly recoup their R&D cost and start profiting on sales because they sell a lot of them.

For an MQ there's a larger barrier to entry. Fewer people have a gun that can use one and fewer than that know how to install and tune one. Thus the market size is much smaller. This means in order to make a reasonable profit they've got to raise the price. As they raise the price fewer people in the available market will be willing to buy one, thus reducing the market further. There's a happy medium in there someplace, but it's very hard to find. If they miss the mark then they'll have an inventory of MQ's that they cannot sell. If they go too low then they don't turn a profit. It's not as simple at manufacturing a bunch of valves and marking them up 10%. Your employees need paychecks, too. If you're not constantly selling something, you can't pay them. Then who builds the valves?

So there's a risk associated with an established company manufacturing and selling MQ's. Instead of taking that risk they're better off using the machine time to manufacture things that are less risky to sell, like complete guns that any kid with a fist full of bills can walk into a store and buy.

Next obvious question: Why doesn't a small shop do it? A small shop is in a much worse position. It will cost them more to design and manufacture the valve and so there's an even higher risk associated with it because then they must sell at a higher price. The result is that they may only be willing to manufacture them on a pre-order basis. On the other hand, I don't know if there's a patent associated with the MQ, so doing so might not even be worth considering.

The bottom line is that there's no longer a large enough market for the MQ to make it worth manufacturing.
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Old 05-11-2012, 07:36 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I suppose that's a valid argument when we're talking actual companies and machine shops. I was more coming from the perspective of 'guy with a lathe' type thing. There's money to be made, but not that kind of money.
I feel like MQ valves in their current state are rare, expensive, and desirable enough that 50 or so could be manufactured at the sub 200 dollar price point without exhausting the market. Any more than that and the price would be driven down with decreasing demand, as you've stated.


In a few months, I will be a 'guy with a lathe' and I have several improvements in mind for the MQ. That said, these projects often expend a lot more time and money than we originally intend; my aim is not to make money but to expand on a product that fills an important niche, and as such I am willing to invest significant assets to see this become a reality. Whether I or someone else sees profit out of this at some point does not matter to me. With that in mind, I do truly think that someone with more knowledge and experience than myself could tackle this project with the intent of turning a profit and succeed.
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Old 05-11-2012, 07:50 PM   #14 (permalink)
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The upgrading market on anything is extremely lucrative. I guess they need to buy a cocker first though.

Anyway, as iiwas saying, those mq2 valves are going for almost triple for what they were new.
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:55 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erspimp03 View Post
I suppose that's a valid argument when we're talking actual companies and machine shops. I was more coming from the perspective of 'guy with a lathe' type thing. There's money to be made, but not that kind of money.
I feel like MQ valves in their current state are rare, expensive, and desirable enough that 50 or so could be manufactured at the sub 200 dollar price point without exhausting the market. Any more than that and the price would be driven down with decreasing demand, as you've stated.


In a few months, I will be a 'guy with a lathe' and I have several improvements in mind for the MQ. That said, these projects often expend a lot more time and money than we originally intend; my aim is not to make money but to expand on a product that fills an important niche, and as such I am willing to invest significant assets to see this become a reality. Whether I or someone else sees profit out of this at some point does NL matter to me. With that in mind, I do truly think that someone with more knowledge and experience than myself could tackle this project with the intent of turning a profit and succeed.
when u are able to make a run of homemade mqs. I will be in line for a couple
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Old 05-13-2012, 09:25 PM   #16 (permalink)
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when u are able to make a run of homemade mqs. I will be in line for a couple

Ditto!
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Old 05-13-2012, 09:29 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I will add a few cents to this discussion...

First. Kee is the current assignee of this patent. You would need to get licensing issues straight with them, or risk being sued by some fairly powerful and financially well off people.

Second. They are not "simple" to manufacture. I have not seen the original blueprints, but I have spoken at length with the inventor of the technology. The issues are not super complex, but I seriously doubt anyone, even someone like me that has a bunch of knowledge about them, could "just whip one out" and have it work the first time. Tuning on the originals was done by hand, and every last one had to be tuned for various parameters.

Third. Be careful. It is easy to establish a poor reputation with one poorly manufacturered product. The MQ1 nearly killed the market, as it was made overseas and the drawings/tolerances were not properly adhered to.

Just a few cents...

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Old 05-13-2012, 09:45 PM   #18 (permalink)
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So, Kee bought the patent to the MQ valve? I wonder if they plan on doing something cool with the sniper. Just looking at that makes me wonder if there's more in store for it.
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Old 05-13-2012, 09:50 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Kee has been the assignee of that patent for quite a while. I do not believe they "own" it. I believe the inventor(s) remain the owners, but have assigned it to Kee, basically forever.

I seriously doubt Kee will ever do much with the patent. Unfortunately, this does not give anyone else the right to use it.

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Old 05-13-2012, 09:53 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Simon says...

That KEE fields an email on this topic at least once a week. KEE's stance is that the amount made from licensing will be less than the cost of drawing up the paperwork. And they aren't interested in producing it, themselves.
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