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Old 05-26-2015, 04:20 PM   #21 (permalink)
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As others and myself through real world testing bore size does not matter in specific terms of accuracy as to how tight or loose the bore itself is within relative terms to the paint(obviously too big or too small -oh wait you aren't a moron) to the best of my testing(and the mans from whom I borrowed the above pics) the only way to improve accuracy is to remove as many variables as possible for the tightest group possible. The variable of the iD in say a +/-.001-.003 difference /687-690-693 while effecting efficiency will not significantly increase or decrease your grouping. And anything above the .003 you start to get into paint size being a major factor and under boring. You cannot have a static number to these variables to get the best bore size for accuracy it just does not work.

You want my opinion through game testing - (provided you are using strictly roundball and are concerned only with accuracy and consistency as it relates to the accuracy) a 690 bore
flexhoned
with the most consistent box of paint you can pick up for the day


wedgits- specific type of "detent" to prevent rollouts for smaller paint with a larger iD barrel -
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Originally Posted by CCMachinist View Post
When I started doing shells for my revolvers the apparent thing i noticed was the hole size in the cartridge controlled the velocity of my paint.
TL;DR hole size controls how fast balls get spent
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Old 05-26-2015, 04:21 PM   #22 (permalink)
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looked at punkworks.....thats why I am leaning toward overbore....

but if that is a bar for testing ... then why have I not seen more tests/experimentation with overboring?

To me shrinking the target area (theoretical MOA) should be one of THE most important things discussed with people who try to be better at this game.
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Old 05-26-2015, 04:22 PM   #23 (permalink)
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efficiency...might make a small difference, yeah there are typically free air-fills all day, but it doesn't hurt if you want a more gas-efficient gun. underboring helps with this.

consistency, in terms of fps over the chrono, does affect precision in the sense that a low-fps ball will fall short of your target, and a high-fps ball will fly overhead. when your target is the size of a mask or hopper, this makes a difference. in the various tests i've looked at, conducted by several different groups, they all conclude that underboring or overboring are best for consistency. "paint matching" does not exist; every paintball has a minimum and maximum diameter, and these diameters vary by paintball, by bag and by case. some paintballs are better that others in maintaining consistent sizes. either size your bore so the smaller diameter of the smallest paintball is a slight press fit, or that the largest diameter of the largest paintball rolls down the barrel.

the best thing to improve accuracy is...to be a better shot. practice with your gun...it really is that simple! beyond that, you want a clean barrel (that's on straight), and clean paint. you want higher-end paint...the seam on the paint is what really matters. if you have a rough seam, the paintball will hook more and you will have a larger shot grouping (less accuracy). smooth seams (like the old, high-end rps paintballs) will lead to smaller shot groupings.
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Barrels are like girls... Some people are just happy to have one that looks good. Or even one that everyone else likes. Other people want a tight, accurate bore to run their balls through.
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Old 05-26-2015, 04:23 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbr View Post
looked at punkworks.....thats why I am leaning toward overbore....

but if that is a bar for testing ... then why have I not seen more tests/experimentation with overboring?

To me shrinking the target area (theoretical MOA) should be one of THE most important things discussed with people who try to be better at this game.
it's because paintballs don't fly straight. The best way to do it is to create a better paintball.

Anyhow, this "accuracy" discussion has been hashed over for years and years.
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Old 05-26-2015, 04:24 PM   #25 (permalink)
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You as a rec player especially cannot control one of the most significant variables that most effect the flight of your paint - the paint itself. So the ultimate in accuracy iD does not exist.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCMachinist View Post
When I started doing shells for my revolvers the apparent thing i noticed was the hole size in the cartridge controlled the velocity of my paint.
TL;DR hole size controls how fast balls get spent
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Old 05-26-2015, 04:32 PM   #26 (permalink)
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No ...No ...I mentioned not being a COMPLETE moron....probably still standard/half moron.

why i am posting ...i guess....

I am not looking for an exact bore ID....what i have been reading all over is lack of any concentration (to me) in making the shooting more accurate.

If overbore is slightly better for shot spread then why have I only seen punkworks mention/test once and maybe 2 others who mention it with any rationality.

Shouldn't we all be looking for smaller shot spread within real world reason?
and IF overbore/under bore matters shouldnt we have a massive discussion and proponents of both sides+testing?
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Old 05-26-2015, 04:35 PM   #27 (permalink)
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For the OP:

Quote:
Things I Believe to be true.

1. Paintballs are crap projectiles, but the better the sphere the more consistent the trajectory. (baseballs are only good in baseball)
I'm fairly certain this is accepted as true by most folks who've played for any significant amount of time. This would include shape and seam condition.

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2. Ive gone through every barrel argument/debate...but some barrel types are better than others. ( hold the flames, finish reading; hence real world!)
What do you mean by "barrel types" Rifled? Ported? Step-Bored? Short? Material? Bore Size? A specific combination of these features? That being said, you say 'some are better than others' but give no further information.

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3. After catching up on all the over/under/barrel match debates-testing-*****ing ...so far no one(i have read) has answered (not define!) what really matters in accuracy.
The biggest problem about barrel testing is that very few manufactures offer a barrels that can be "apples to apples" tested against a specific feature (i.e. bore size without changing porting patterns).

Another complicating factor is paint consistency. Not just in bore fit but, also roundness and, seam condition. Testing by some individuals, have provided evidence that seam condition can actually overpower any influences of the barrel. Testing paintballs via sabots (paper towel) reduced spin and made some ridiculously tight groups.

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4. I don't understand the arguments about "efficiency" vs "consistency" vs (what really matters) "accuracy"
In some extreme cases, velocity consistency can influence accuracy, particularly if there's a crosswind involved (faster velocity shots will travel a given distance in a shorter time, and reduce the influence of the crosswind on the shot).

Some folks care about efficiency if they play in tournament or speedball formats where they are pressed for time to top off their tanks.

For anyone doing Chrono testing, I recommend (even though the OP didn't) that you use a chrono that provides feedback on shot detection. In my own personal testing, I was surprised by how often a Virtue Clock would fail to even detect a shot. Many other radar-based models (i.e. the Big Red) will simply leave up the previous shot until another shot is detected.

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Originally Posted by Spider! View Post
If you want to be able to shoot nasty paint relatively well, check out the various arguments/reviews on hammerhead barrels (rifled). They basically spin the dimples and warts on the ball on the axis of travel, so that it averages out in the right direction. They affect good paint too, but it's not as noticeable. When you travel to get to "event only" paint, a hammerhead can really improve your day.
I have not seen any rigorous testing provide evidence to the actual truth of this. I've seen several tests that have shown that rifled barrels perform no better (or even slightly worse) than a comparable, non-rifled barrel, and they haven't been shown to impart a predictable and repeatable spin on regular paintballs (example).

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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Consistency - Same FPS shot after shot.
With a jelled filled sphere, any sort of spin will cause the heavy gel to converge on one side causing wild shots. For paintball, the less spin on the ball the flatter the trajectory. The best barrel is one that can cause a "knuckle ball effect". I have found that a straight rifled barrel with only 4 grooves has been the best. I have an old JJ barrel with this type of rifling. Shoots nice and straight for me. Consistent on where each shot goes.

So, does this help?
If a barrel imparts a spin on a ball, it is done in the confines of the barrel and, the ball will settle by the time it leaves. The problems with spinning paintballs are that they're oblong in shape, their seams are big enough to influence aerodynamics, and the ball/seam orientation varies from shot to shot. If you can control this and reduce/eliminate the spin (as in the sabot testing referenced above), you can get amazing accuracy but, using sabots in game is extremely impractical.
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Old 05-26-2015, 04:36 PM   #28 (permalink)
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there is no one /proponent of overboring that i have seen
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Old 05-26-2015, 04:38 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbr View Post

Shouldn't we all be looking for smaller shot spread within real world reason?
and IF overbore/under bore matters shouldnt we have a massive discussion and proponents of both sides+testing?
This right here is what drove punkworks to do their tests.

if you want more, I'd suggest digging into Tom Kaynes Tech Tips.
Toms Kayne tech tips sticky - Paintball Forum - Paintball guns and gear forums
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Old 05-26-2015, 04:40 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbr View Post
shouldnt we have a massive discussion and proponents of both sides+testing?
We have. It's been had, for years and years and even before the advent of the internet. The threads are out there if you look for them. But discussing HARDER and LONGER isn't going to help any more than it already has. Ultimately we are shooting imperfect gelatin spheres out of pop guns and there is a physical limitation to how accurate it can get. What everyone in this thread has replied with is the general consensus on the state of the art.

The only suggestion that hasn't been specifically made to improve your accuracy is to switch to FirstStrike rounds and a rifled barrel. There's a whole subforum for it, and it's the best bet you have right now if ultimate accuracy is your goal.
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