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Old 04-18-2016, 04:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
Pancake
 
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Pump on unregulated 12ies

Hi all

I am looking for some advice on how to spring / setup a 2k+ cocker to work off of unregulated 12 gram cartridges to play stock class.

Setup:
Aim Crow body
Shocktech Supafly bolt
Palmers HP LT valve
red madman springs
CCI bucket changer into the VASA
Freak bored Teardrop barrel

Results from yesterday:
Paint - GI 4 star out of a 682 insert, not a tight fit, but no rollouts
Shots 1-10 crept from the low 200s closer to 250fps
11-20 crept up from 250 to 275fps
21-30 creeps up from 275 to 300fps
31-33 goes up to 326fps and then back down to 250
then shot 34 did not even register on the chrono (no more pressure)


I am aware of the relationship between the input pressure and FPS achieved on these setups, but am used to using regulated air source. My thoughts on this was to see if adding an expansion chamber could start the system off at a lower pressure, and shot velocity would drop off from there. I am just curious if anybody is versed in the ways of unregulated 12ies, and has already come up with a solution to this.

Thanks
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Old 04-18-2016, 04:51 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You want as little volume as possible. Pre2k bodies work a lot better for this setup. I've read of people putting things in the air passage to take out some volume, macroline, string trimmer cord, etc. For springs you want the sweet spot to be above 850 otherwise you'll see the Fps go up as you deplete the 12g like you have now.
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Old 04-18-2016, 05:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Awesome. That makes sense, and I guess I was going in the opposite direction. So is the Palmer's valve not helpful if "The smaller head also increases the valve chamber storage space" (from website, referring to valve stem).

On another note, are phantoms and other stock class markers made with little volume for expansion?
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Old 04-18-2016, 10:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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The gas from the 12 gram has to fill all the empty space before the valve, what ever energy that goes into that doesn't go into propelling the paint ball. The palmers hp valve is supposed to be a good valve for running unregulated. The hp valve should balance better at the higher pressure with out having to get crazy with the springs. I personally use an old sniper valve in an old sniper, it works great.
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Old 04-19-2016, 12:33 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Use the spring that came with the palmer valve.

Use the main spring that gives you desireable velocity.

Either use normal bore with wedgits, or a tight as hell bore. Both give good consistency with closed bolt

Then you can look at any piece of tubing like a macroline that you can use to devolumize the air chamber. Only the barrel will help with consistency, the devolumizing should help with efficiency..

Don't use an expansion chamber. 12 gram in vertical adapter.

I'm guessing your problem is that you shoulda used the spring pps gave you rather than red madman.
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Last edited by Cunha; 04-19-2016 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 04-19-2016, 01:21 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Personally if I had a 2k I'd just run a cart reg rather than unregulated and devolumizing.

Even on devolumized unregulated builds I doubt your shot count is more than 30. At least going regulated all your shots are same velocity (no drop off towards end of 12 gram) and better consistancy while still getting about the same number of total shots compared to setting it up unregulated.

Just imo
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Old 04-19-2016, 02:30 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Got the valve second hand, didn't get a Palmer's spring. Cart reg was the backup plan but would like to figure this out
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Old 04-30-2016, 01:06 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Call palmer for spring. Or fiddle with what you have.
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Call palmer for spring. Or fiddle with what you have.
Is the Palmer's spring stiff? I need one stiff enough to keep fps down when pressure decreases.

Anything softer is just going to make velocity creep even more as pressure drops
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Old 05-02-2016, 02:38 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The spring that comes with the valve is rather stiff, yes.
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