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Old 05-16-2016, 02:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I need your paypal claim experience and knowledge!

Howdy all

Not far along enough to need to make any claims, but I figured I'd try to get as much information as I can now before I need to. But hopefully it doesn't come to that.

Here's the story:

Purchased a Techt T2 bolt from an individual over facebook. Made payment via PayPal, sent for goods/services, and I covered fees. Several days later, package was received and clearly destroyed in the sorting machines down at USPS. The package had black smears and tears through the envelope (scotch bubble mailer with minimal bubble lining). The bolt came out of the package without further tearing, the hole was already big enough. On top of that, $1.15 postage was due on delivery from the seller not having paid the full amount ( label says he paid $0.94).
The bolt itself look like it got ran over by a truck. A clear right angle was ground into it (I assume by a jammed sorting machine) and the face of the bolt was just as deformed. Also, the Techt jewel was not on it, and presumably on the ground in a USPS facility somewhere.
I bring this up with the seller, he says package was insured for $50. I went to the post office to start the claim process. They told me it was shipped via first class and had zero insurance on it.
I have just now mentioned this to the seller and am awaiting reply.

My question is, both morally, and in the eyes of PayPal, is an item the buyers responsibility at what point? I'd imagine that the seller should take full responsibility until the item has reached the buyer in the described condition, as anything in between would not be the fault of the buyer. Side story: for this reason, I made a partial refund to an individual when the pump kit that I had shipped to them arrived with no pump arm (must have penetrated and fallen out of the package).

So, the packaging was inadequate, it was labeled with insufficient postage, so the sorting machines thought that it was a thin envelope, and did not arrive in the described condition. Am I morally wrong to ask for a refund? Would PayPal take my side in filing a claim for a refund? Again, hopefully it does not come to this.

In the end, it was only $20 and I can suck it up, but would like some opinions on the situation.

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Old 05-16-2016, 02:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Sounds like "Item not as described". I would try to work with the seller for a refund before going for the claim but I would think you have a valid claim.

Side note: Always ship in a box of some sort. Less chance of getting caught in the envelope sorter.
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Old 05-16-2016, 02:56 PM   #3 (permalink)
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It is the seller's responsibility that the item that is sold is sent to the buying party. Until the package is opened and in the buyer's possession that the seller's responsibility is done.

It sucks that the seller did nothing to cause this (outside of not pay correct shipping) but in reality this whole thing is on him/her.

I would begin the return process with paypal and usps and follow their instructions (paypal first since they hold the $$).

This should also be a lesson to place things in boxes or clearly labeled packages that say DO NOT BEND or whatever, AND to get a little bit of insurance just in case.

Everyone should be using USPS priority boxes anyway. I have NEVER had one go missing (well over 100 shipped) or get busted up, they are fairly cheap, they move fast, and they have $50 automatic insurance.

Good luck!
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Old 05-16-2016, 03:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Seller responded and wants to make the situation right, so all is well. Thanks for the info, this is my first time being in this situation...
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Old 05-16-2016, 03:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
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That rate is way too low. It should have been at *least* $2 if it was First Class. My guess is they sent it standard post. First class doesn't come with insurance by default but it could have been added. USPS Priority does include like $50 worth of insurance by default.

If they shipped in a padded mailer, they could have at least wrapped the part in a piece of cardboard or something... or a small box in there. Small boxes are cheap and don't cost more to ship... hell in bulk they're actually cheaper than the padded mailers and they don't get shredded by the sorting machines.
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Old 05-16-2016, 04:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
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small flat rate box is a little over $5 with insurance. hopefully he learned to go that route and save him money in the future

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Old 05-16-2016, 07:31 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The seller lied @ insurance or is not competent enough to know better.

That would make me quick to take PayPal action if there are other red flags, and there appear to be a few.
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Shipped price is valid to domestic buyers and will be USPS priority. International buyers are welcome, but will cover additional costs. Insurance costs are included. If you prefer an uninsured package, you the buyer will assume all risk once I ship.
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Old 05-17-2016, 12:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
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The above is a good thing.

For future:

1) always use a credit card to pay for online purchases, even through PayPal
2) make a claim with your credit card company; let them sort it out

That's it, that's all I got.

I use my bank account directly hooked up to PayPal so funds are withdrawn from my bank account to pay for each item. Is this close enough?
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If one is going to be an ambassador to the sport do your best to try to convey to new players what the sport is about and attempt to convey the same message to the players that are being abusive.
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Old 05-17-2016, 12:44 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I use my bank account directly hooked up to PayPal so funds are withdrawn from my bank account to pay for each item. Is this close enough?
change it to use the debit card that is linked to your account. not hard to set that up.
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Old 05-17-2016, 12:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I use my bank account directly hooked up to PayPal so funds are withdrawn from my bank account to pay for each item. Is this close enough?
no. paypal can descide to take money from your bank account to cover fee reversals and what not. your bank does not cover any loss to you from payments. your credit card does. the credit card company will just tell paypal to get stuffed if you file a claim direct to the credit card company.
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