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Old 06-22-2018, 07:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Educate Me On Phantoms

Gents, I'm thinking of getting into the phantom game. I've been shooting cocker pumps forever and just want to try something new. For all of you phantom guys out there, help me out. I'm trying to learn a bit about the platform and could use some insight. Here's what I think I know so far. Correct me if I'm wrong:

1) phantoms have a crisper pump stroke than a cocker
2) if you're used to a cocker, you probably want an undercooking kit because the pump handle around the barrel is different.
3) you adjust the velocity by putting what is essentially a huge Allen wrench down the barrel.
4) they "point" different than a cocker

That being said, here are my questions:

1) how different is the shot than a cocker? Will I have to spend 5 days at the field before I can hit anything?
2) how essential is a freak bored barrel?
3) what's the difference in a phantom and a phantom revolution?
4) for those of you who have shot both cockers and phantoms, what would be the best advice you'd give yourself about the transition?
5) how different is a cocker with a tank compared to a phantom with a stock? Does the gun sit differently?

I'd appreciate any advice you guys can give me. Also, if anyone has an acid washed phantom with an undercooking kit and a stock, I'd be interested in checking it out.
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Old 06-22-2018, 07:25 PM   #2 (permalink)
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2) how essential is a freak bored barrel?

Bore sizing is essential to prevent ball roll out. The detent only prevents double feeding.
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Old 06-22-2018, 07:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Crocker pump stroke is way nicer.

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Old 06-22-2018, 07:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SHOCKMAN.RONIN View Post
2) how essential is a freak bored barrel?

Bore sizing is essential to prevent ball roll out. The detent only prevents double feeding.
Double detent work for me. But, yes freak boring is ideal for consistency.

Additionally, you reminded me that I need to update my fishing line detent tutorial. Finally made a jig. it only took a year. Lol.
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Old 06-22-2018, 07:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
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1)shooting cocker pumps forever, you’ll definitely need to get used to the phantom platform. I shot phantoms long before cocker pumps and found I needed some adjustment time.

2)freak barrels are only a necessity without a detent mod. You’ll want to underbore the hell out of it to prevent rollouts. Or get the asp detent mod and never look back. That said, proper bore sizing goes a long way in any paintball application. But the nonbored stock barrels ring in around .686

3)the classic phantom is a pure blood Nelson. The revolution is a new system entirely and apparently, best suited to tinkers. Coming from cockers, that may not be an issue for you

4)get an undercocking kit. It helps bridge the gap in pump style, and let’s you sight down the side of the gun like a vert feed cocker

5)a phantom with a stock doesn’t point much different than a cocker. A back bottle phantom on the other hand...

My favorite open class load out is a 9ci or 4oz vertical tank with a miniwini and expandable l-stock. But the nice thing about the phantom is how modular they are. So many options!

And I can’t stress the importance of a detent mod enough. With today’s tiny paint, you’ll have terrible rollouts without one. And in my experience, the detent rings still let a few by, or blow a few balls if you try to undersize and catch em all
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Old 06-22-2018, 07:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
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1) All depends on the Phantom, I've felt some that are horrible, Mine have been really smooth, crisp isn't quite the word I would use.
2) Try both, you might like it!
3) Yep
4) Yep

1) I found it very easy to move from my cocker to phantom even without a stock
2) if you like to cock immediately after you shoot and not shoot again, necessary.
3) Very, Very different, Revo is "semi" because every time you pull the trigger it fires, so the only thing the pump does is chamber a ball, very light pump stroke since you are only going against the pump return spring
4) go open class no stock. and feel where it points just with 2 points of contact, then once that feels right add back in the stock or a bottom bottle adaptor.
5) Yep, you can also get a phantom with a tank, to me the phantom feels more... forward?

"I don't get out often, but when I do, I prefer being one balled...stay accurate my friends."
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Old 06-22-2018, 07:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
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1) Yep! The pump stroke is indeed different, but not different to the point of hinderance. I find that with an undercocking kit I can transition between shooting my KP3 (cheapo cocker pump/pump spyder) and my phantom. Same thing with my custom built cocker pumps of the past.

2) Yep! I personally just like the undercocking kit as it helps prevent my hands from getting in my line of sight.

3) Yep!

4) Yep! They feel lower to me in hand due to the single tube design.

Your questions:

1) That depends on you, I can transition back and forth within half an hour without any problems. Some people have been playing with phantoms for years and cant hit anything.

2) Freak bore, CCI sizer rings, ASP detent mod, or tape in the barrels all help to prevent rollouts.

3) Valves and pump are different animals, basically the Revolution is a broken semi in that it will fire with every trigger pull but wont load with each shot.

4) Play a different class type (open, stock, modified), play different styles/aggressiveness/movements on the field. My mind usually will pick different styles of play depending on what I have in my hand.

5) Phantoms sit lower, feel smaller and are lighter in hand than a cocker.
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Old 06-22-2018, 08:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I have always had a hard time moving between the two. The aim point is different for me, with or without a stock. Based on my experience, a couple of days of backyard practice before going to the field is a good idea if you can do it.

An undercocking kit makes the feel and aiming more like a cocker. You have to be careful, the screw for most of the kits tends to work itself out over time, so plan on checking it a couple of times per playing day.

The pump stroke is less smooth and stiffer than most cocker pumps, but it has a very defined feel to it - almost like a pump action shotgun. It also breaks in and gets smoother over time.

Underbording is a good idea. You don't need a freak, you can use the rings. The efficiency won't be as good, but they will prevent rollouts just fine. ASP detent mod (or a home detent mod) is also a very good idea.

As far as the cocker with tank vs phantom with stock, it depends. On me, they sit a bit differently. But there are a few angled blocks that can change how the stock mounts, so you have some options to move the gun down lower if you like that better. I have found that the T stock sits the gun up a bit higher than the L stock.

I also recommend a stock, especially if you are used to having a tank. For me, it makes aiming and the muscle memory component a lot easier. I like the L stocks, but the T stocks are way more versatile.

Get one. They are great guns, and I have really enjoyed all the phantoms I have owned over the years.
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Old 06-22-2018, 09:02 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Despite starting on a 007, switching to a PGP, then running a KP until getting a first gen Bushmaster, then several Snipers joined my stable, I can't shoot Snipers worth a damn. I can still rack up kills with a KP or PGP, Phantoms and other Nelson derivatives, with Snipers, I just suck.
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Old 06-23-2018, 01:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I used to shoot a PMR before going phantom. I can't say I have the experience of shooting snipers/cockers semi or pump. What I can offer is the best advice I've received having recently gotten into phantoms (I'm about a year in).

- All the way forward, all the way back quickly.
- Depending on the phantom, I've found some are more sensitive to pump stroke than others.
- All the pump handle options have something to offer, but I'd second Diomedes when he says the Dual Undercocking kit is the best, simply because it has the strongest return.
- or a short one if you remove the barrel.

- 1shot warned me I would suck my first couple days. He was right. Be patient with yourself and the new platform... and run for the barrel tag!
- Detents are essential. The ASP is worth the money. Barrel sizers are a "why not." Good paint reduces the need for barrel sizers on any marker.
- People preach underboring, which I generally agree with. The one time I'd overbore is when the paint is highly variable in bore size and shape. I had a tough day once, and no amount of underboring seemed to help. I wish I'd tried overboring.
- If you want simple, go Phantom. If you want to tinker, go revolution.
-The consensus seems to be to stick with it and it will pay off.
- If you're a runner and gunner like me, I found no stock pretty freeing from a traditional speedball setup. More so for CQB formats. If you're looking to mimic your previous setup, which it sounds like you are, try this later. It's a Lego gun. Taking things off/on isn't difficult.

To flush out the Detents options a little:
ASP (drilled from the bottom), Spyder *Ego* detent mod (drilled from the top, fishing line, tape, nail polish.
Barrel sizers by price:
CCI rings, TechT iFit kit, Gog Freak, Lapco Big shots (or other precise bore barrels in special sizes)

They are fun man. I'd second the suggesting to go through the picture thread. You'll probably figure out what setups you like best by the most common traits of the pictures you download.

Sorry for the wall of text. In recompense, here's some pron.
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Last edited by Bang*Bang**; 06-24-2018 at 03:38 AM.
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