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Old 01-06-2019, 05:30 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Here's the Facebook link to the guy behind Parabolic Phi barrels explaining what I understand to be the most accurate take on paint/ barrel physics since reading Punk Works tests from back in 2009.

I'm really curious how this will play with First Strike Rounds and rifled barrels, once there's a little more than just this 5 shot comparison.

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Old 01-07-2019, 08:05 AM   #22 (permalink)
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If we take his word for the length of "effective" control bore (and it seems to match up with all the wisdom I have recalled over the years) which is 8-9 inches is max useful length and everything after is a waste of friction, what are you getting out of the extra length?

Call me stupid but it seems to me with his explanation there shouldn't be much difference in performance between an 8" barrel which is all control bore and his parabolic which flares out at 8".

How much additional energy is the extra 4-6" of flared non control bore going to impart when it is not only leaking around the ball (potentially causing turbulence) as well as out the porting (where the majority of the gas would go at that point)? Obviously that extra energy is the "savings" on efficiency.

Or is this just a gimmick of consistency? Does the slow loss of force behind the ball vs near instant loss (from no porting) actually help consistency in some way?
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Old 01-07-2019, 08:37 AM   #23 (permalink)
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You got it! That seems to be the consensus.
1.Control bore for acceleration.
2.Flare and porting for consistency/ dissipation (reduced "pop" sound signature).

I think the claim he's making for the Phi is that it's a sum of its parts, maximizing all the little incremental improvements.

I had a chat with Mike at CCI about barrel stuff in May 2018 and his point was that because paintballs are so significantly slower and lighter than firearms ammunition, the tiniest coefficient of friction can have a significant impact.

I mean, were talking decimal points, but still. It's fun to think about.

This is why it'll be interesting to see if/how FSR's change things: rifling drag, spin, flight stability. It's like playing the same game with some new elements thrown in.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:02 PM   #24 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=

I picked up a Lapco Fuse 2-piece in a .680 bore and it shoots almost anything perfectly well. I'll use the .675 Freak when I have to, but I don't like it as much.[/QUOTE]

fwiw, i also just got on the Fuse train, and am loving it! i have a 683 and 691

here is why for all the gathered and ravenous masses:

for the paint i buy, a .683 seems to catch a solid 85-90% of rollouts.

and for when i have to shoot crap, i use my 691. our field paint some times comes in as "moon rocks" and the out of round wil lead to a day full of barrel breaks! i settled on 691 instead of 689, which honestly is probably still plenty big enough for our moonrocks, based on the fact that i have an old SS Boomy (691), that no matter what i put through it, never breaks,and honestly slings the rocks straighter than anything else. i mean, they still wing, im not going to lie to you all, but wing much less than some of my other barrels in more middle sizes.

if i run into an outrageously small batch of paint, i grab the electrical tape, and make sure my strip is no more than .75-1.0 inches long, and sits at the top of my barrel when screwed/seated properly.

all that said, as can be expected, i absolutely get better vel consistency with my smaller barrel, to the order of +/- 5.

when i have good paint that is just too big for my 683, the 691 still puts them where i want, but less consistent. it really is just a matter of total trajectory though. always straight, just maybe one shot farther/shorter.
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Old 01-09-2019, 12:25 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I've been down this road before and came to my own conclusions. I believe that the best overall performance is with a one piece barrel and good bore match, with quality paint. If you have iffy paint, the next best situation is a one piece barrel with a slight overbore - if you have a detent system.

The longer control bore of a one piece barrel (10-12" control bore) helps to mitigate inconsistency in paint size and shape. A slight overbore will help mitigate barrel/breach breaks.

Situations where barrel kits are somewhat necessary: closed bolt gun with no detent. You can under-bore with an insert and it will function like a detent to prevent rollouts. Only problem is if the paint is inconsistent in size you might get a freakishly large or deformed ball that can't handle the under-bore.

If you have decent, consistent paint, under-boring will provide benefits in efficiency, as others have described here. The freak kits are handy in that you can change out inserts to always be able to achieve an under-bore.

Accuracy is the least significant factor with barrels. The number one factor in accuracy is the quality of the paint itself.

Right now, I'm back to using freak inserts with an 8' c-bored CCI barrel with my phantom. The main reason is the shorter barrel allows me to get tighter with the bunkers on the fields that I play at, which are all recball fields with hard bunkers.

My final conclusion is that bore matching is important, but, the longer your control bore is, the less precise your bore matching needs to be. If I was playing woods ball or rec fields with a more open setup, I'd be rocking one piece barrels.
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:55 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicleaf View Post
Right now, I'm back to using freak inserts with an 8' c-bored CCI barrel with my phantom. The main reason is the shorter barrel allows me to get tighter with the bunkers on the fields that I play at, which are all recball fields with hard bunkers.

My final conclusion is that bore matching is important, but, the longer your control bore is, the less precise your bore matching needs to be. If I was playing woods ball or rec fields with a more open setup, I'd be rocking one piece barrels.
Ha! I'm right there with you! 0.682 insert and go. The 8" just fits so nice on the phantom. When you think about it, it even kinda fits with the 8-9" acceleration concept.

But yeah. A million dollars on barrels is beat by $100 on good paint. Every day of the week. Good point.

I'm curious if we know the bore of the C-bore (freak bored) CCI barrels?

When I asked Mike, he said 0.686 but I didn't clarify if he meant the regular barrels or the C-bores too.
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Old 01-09-2019, 02:16 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang*Bang** View Post
Ha! I'm right there with you! 0.682 insert and go. The 8" just fits so nice on the phantom. When you think about it, it even kinda fits with the 8-9" acceleration concept.

But yeah. A million dollars on barrels is beat by $100 on good paint. Every day of the week. Good point.

I'm curious if we know the bore of the C-bore (freak bored) CCI barrels?

When I asked Mike, he said 0.686 but I didn't clarify if he meant the regular barrels or the C-bores too.
I'm pretty sure the .686 is for the regular barrels. If the c-bored barrels were that size, you couldn't even use half the inserts. It would be interesting to see what would happen if you used a .690 insert in a .686 barrel though. I think it would be messy...
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Old 01-09-2019, 02:44 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Agreed.
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Old 01-09-2019, 12:51 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JonnyDread View Post
I'm interested in trying/comparing one of these barrel just to see if it's sheerly a numbers difference or if it's something I would notice in game.
I’m curious myself. People swear by them. I have so many barrel systems it’s crazy. I like the idea of a 1 piece barrel but I hate the idea of having to buy so many barrels to have a full kit. I would like to see what it will do for my SC cocker threaded Phantom. I know exactly how that marker performs I would be able to tell in a days play if it was worth getting or not.

I would replace all my barrels with a Phi system if it’s worth it. Everyone I see using them run them on electros. So it’s hard to trust someone’s word that can tell the difference in accuracy at 12.5bps.

Anyone run this system on a pump that can truly tell a difference on the field compared to other high end barrels? I’m just skeptical that a barrel design can make that big of a difference over a standerd 2 piece UL real world use. I can’t tell the difference from a 1” control bore from a 6” or XL freak. So what is left to gain? I do like the porting design. I just got to get my hands on a set. I got a friend in Florida that has a set may have him send it to me to try.
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:20 PM   #30 (permalink)
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posts 25-28 should be gospel!

words are hard, glad yall are better than me lol!
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