curious, possible to do this?

CamoDeafie · 02-21-2008, 06:59 PM

is it possible to bore out an unibody pump to accept freak inserts from the rear? (going through the valve area to the rear using an incredibly long boring bar or some such), since its alreasdy .850 inside diameter, with the barrel bore being roughly .690 or something, this would be so i dont need to change barrels, but im not sure how i would retain the insert, save for the use of a bore-drop bolt like the bushmaster or the razorback i have....

Latoolman · 02-21-2008, 07:21 PM

Good ??? ... had similar thoughts..... I wonder if using a reamer at that length is better.... I know the boring bar I have is kinda flimzy when you stick out far...

CamoDeafie · 02-21-2008, 07:37 PM

hmmmm you do have a point...i am not going to do it on the phantom i have, since its an unibody phantom and already accurate enough

CamoDeafie · 02-21-2008, 07:47 PM

time to look into m y tooling catalog

jhyan · 02-21-2008, 07:50 PM

I know my breech drop nelsons usually sealed the bore with an oring on the bolt. Enough that I never used return springs on them, the pressure of the oring was enough to keep the bolt forward when running. I would be worried about the bolt o-ring pulling the freak insert back.

Maybe if you drilled a small hole in the body that would be covered by the frame and tapped it for a small plastic set screw. You might get enough pressure to hold the insert forward, though it would add another step in changing inserts.

Emerald Wolf · 02-21-2008, 08:02 PM

I had a couple of thoughts that run in this way while contemplating making barrels. I was thinking of a way to bore barrels with a lathe that had a headstock too small to take a barrel. What if you were to make a boring bar that ran between centers and you clamped the barrel/body to a fixture on the saddle (somewhat like those lathe milling setups).

The problem with reamers is being able to reach that far. So far I've only seen reamers that would reach about 8" or so....Remember you have to reach to the head of breach, and then 6" for the length of the insert.

Catchya on the Flip Side.....

Emerald Wolf -- hmmph....

CamoDeafie · 02-21-2008, 08:20 PM

well you have to wonder how do people bore out 22"+ barrels on a lathe, no? so the reamer in the right length does exist, but the lathe set up, im not sure what would be idea, or who i should send it to to have it reamed for a freak insert unit, or something........althought it would be nice to have a polished brass insert... i have seen specialized drills "aircraft extrension shaft" and reamers with shank length of 14 inches in the catalog, so it is possible, but im not sure how steady it could be....might need to have 2 toolholders?

Railgun · 02-21-2008, 10:30 PM

There's adjustable reamers out there and the trick from there would be to make a pilot that fits on the front in such a way that you're sure it's concentric. I'd also make a rear pilot that slips on over the shaft so it's guided fully. Now I don't know the outside diameter of the Freak inserts but if it's, say, 3/4 or .750 and the barrel is .689 or so that's a pretty aggresive cut for a reamer. Doable but not the best. But that's where the adjustability comes into play. You could do it in two or three cuts.

Why do I worry about the size of cuts? First off most reamers have a very slight lead in at the nose of the cutters. Second to ensure that the pilots control the centering action you'll be doing all the cutting with hand power. That's why you can buy "hand" reamers.

There's likely other ways but this way would produce a nice smooth finish for the insert while a boring bar is subject to flexing, chatter and the cut being rather rough.

The bar between centers is a good one but consider the length vs diameter that you would need. Such a bar would be more noodle like than bar like I'm afraid. A few thou of flex doesn't sound like much but it's fractions of a single thou that make or break metal working projects.

Crash · 02-21-2008, 10:31 PM

I have asked around and all I got from the AirSmiths I ask was no, no and no!

Railgun · 02-21-2008, 10:34 PM

Bushwa. It's hard and would require special tooling to be fabricated but it's possible. Due to the prep work required to make the tooling though it would be stupid expensive to have to pay for it so perhaps it was a combo of cost and reality of what you're wanting to do it to that led to the "no's".

02-21-2008, 06:59 PM	#1 (permalink)
CamoDeafie Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Monmouth, Oregon	curious, possible to do this? is it possible to bore out an unibody pump to accept freak inserts from the rear? (going through the valve area to the rear using an incredibly long boring bar or some such), since its alreasdy .850 inside diameter, with the barrel bore being roughly .690 or something, this would be so i dont need to change barrels, but im not sure how i would retain the insert, save for the use of a bore-drop bolt like the bushmaster or the razorback i have....

02-21-2008, 10:30 PM	#8 (permalink)
Railgun Post Whore Join Date: Oct 2006	There's adjustable reamers out there and the trick from there would be to make a pilot that fits on the front in such a way that you're sure it's concentric. I'd also make a rear pilot that slips on over the shaft so it's guided fully. Now I don't know the outside diameter of the Freak inserts but if it's, say, 3/4 or .750 and the barrel is .689 or so that's a pretty aggresive cut for a reamer. Doable but not the best. But that's where the adjustability comes into play. You could do it in two or three cuts. Why do I worry about the size of cuts? First off most reamers have a very slight lead in at the nose of the cutters. Second to ensure that the pilots control the centering action you'll be doing all the cutting with hand power. That's why you can buy "hand" reamers. There's likely other ways but this way would produce a nice smooth finish for the insert while a boring bar is subject to flexing, chatter and the cut being rather rough. The bar between centers is a good one but consider the length vs diameter that you would need. Such a bar would be more noodle like than bar like I'm afraid. A few thou of flex doesn't sound like much but it's fractions of a single thou that make or break metal working projects. __________________ I had a "Paintball God" moment once. Like Al Bundy's Polk High football moment I live on for the slim chance of repeating that one time miracle in some small way.........

02-21-2008, 10:31 PM	#9 (permalink)
Crash Post Whore Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North East Texas	I have asked around and all I got from the AirSmiths I ask was no, no and no! __________________ Later, John My FS Listing Misc bits- My feed back: https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=1021 Carter's Commando Texas Division: https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/c...-division.html

02-21-2008, 10:34 PM	#10 (permalink)
Railgun Post Whore Join Date: Oct 2006	Bushwa. It's hard and would require special tooling to be fabricated but it's possible. Due to the prep work required to make the tooling though it would be stupid expensive to have to pay for it so perhaps it was a combo of cost and reality of what you're wanting to do it to that led to the "no's". __________________ I had a "Paintball God" moment once. Like Al Bundy's Polk High football moment I live on for the slim chance of repeating that one time miracle in some small way.........

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02-21-2008, 07:37 PM	#3 (permalink)
CamoDeafie Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Monmouth, Oregon	hmmmm you do have a point...i am not going to do it on the phantom i have, since its an unibody phantom and already accurate enough

02-21-2008, 07:47 PM	#4 (permalink)
CamoDeafie Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Monmouth, Oregon	time to look into m y tooling catalog

02-21-2008, 07:50 PM	#5 (permalink)
jhyan Cheffer Join Date: Apr 2006	I know my breech drop nelsons usually sealed the bore with an oring on the bolt. Enough that I never used return springs on them, the pressure of the oring was enough to keep the bolt forward when running. I would be worried about the bolt o-ring pulling the freak insert back. Maybe if you drilled a small hole in the body that would be covered by the frame and tapped it for a small plastic set screw. You might get enough pressure to hold the insert forward, though it would add another step in changing inserts.

02-21-2008, 08:02 PM	#6 (permalink)
Emerald Wolf Active Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Denver, Colo.	I had a couple of thoughts that run in this way while contemplating making barrels. I was thinking of a way to bore barrels with a lathe that had a headstock too small to take a barrel. What if you were to make a boring bar that ran between centers and you clamped the barrel/body to a fixture on the saddle (somewhat like those lathe milling setups). The problem with reamers is being able to reach that far. So far I've only seen reamers that would reach about 8" or so....Remember you have to reach to the head of breach, and then 6" for the length of the insert. Catchya on the Flip Side..... Emerald Wolf -- hmmph....

02-21-2008, 08:20 PM	#7 (permalink)
CamoDeafie Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Monmouth, Oregon	well you have to wonder how do people bore out 22"+ barrels on a lathe, no? so the reamer in the right length does exist, but the lathe set up, im not sure what would be idea, or who i should send it to to have it reamed for a freak insert unit, or something........althought it would be nice to have a polished brass insert... i have seen specialized drills "aircraft extrension shaft" and reamers with shank length of 14 inches in the catalog, so it is possible, but im not sure how steady it could be....might need to have 2 toolholders?