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Old 08-11-2014, 01:52 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Uncocking Issue

Two weeks back, I dusted off my 2k2 Black Magic and took it out to a local field. I'd had the gun timed last fall, and hadn't used it since. Generally, my cocker shot great, even threading shots between multiple bunkers down field. BUT, periodically the back block would stick back while firing a string of paint.

What I can't figure out is, whether this is user error or a setup problem.

As I said, I haven't used my cocker in awhile, so I'm out of practice with its slide trigger. On the other hand, I wasn't shooting particularly fast either. When I chrono'ed the gun that morning, I backed out the LPR, gassed it up, and slowly turned up the LPR until it recocked, then turned it up a 1/4 turn more. This is my typical "cold start" routine. When the back block started sticking back during the game, I turned up the LPR thinking that there have been insufficient pressure to recock the gun, but this made no difference.

The field is run by the local store I frequent, and the store owner was at the field that day, and recognized my gun from his timing job last fall. He could not figure out the uncocking issue.

My setup:
2k2 WGP Black Magic
Belsales Hollowpoint 4-way
Belsales .44 Ram w/ 2 Planet Eclipse QEVs (yeah...nipples on a bull...)
Palmer Rock LPR
Freeflow spring kit
Freeflow grip frame and trigger plate
Shocktech roller sear
WGP delrin bolt
Stock hammer & valve
BM regulator
AGD flatline 68/3000, adjusted to 800psi output

Thanks!
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
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When it sticks back is it hard to push the back block forward again?

I would hazard a guess that the ram is not venting properly
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Old and sticky 3-way o-rings. Replace these.
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keys_JR View Post
When it sticks back is it hard to push the back block forward again?

I would hazard a guess that the ram is not venting properly
I don't remember...I do know that I had to pull back on the back block to re-cock it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maggot View Post
Old and sticky 3-way o-rings. Replace these.
I'll check those. Thanks!
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GattoDiavolo View Post
I don't remember...I do know that I had to pull back on the back block to re-cock it.
Oh, I understood your problem backwards.
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
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See if you can post a video clip. It would make it easier for other to provide accurate suggestion.

My 1st guess is your bolt. If the bolt does not move freely, you can have that very same symptom.
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Old 08-13-2014, 12:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bss View Post
See if you can post a video clip. It would make it easier for other to provide accurate suggestion.

My 1st guess is your bolt. If the bolt does not move freely, you can have that very same symptom.
I believe the bolt moves freely, but I will try to post a video shortly.
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Old 08-17-2014, 05:21 AM   #8 (permalink)
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So it's skipping shots? Like the sear won't catch the hammer properly?
Often a worn sear spring can cause this, but it could also be a problem with the ram.

My Trilly started skipping shots recently, and I stretched the sear spring a little, but that didn't help. Then I noticed how it appeared that the ram just couldn't push back far enough on some cycles. I thought that maybe the LPR was set low, so I adjusted it as high as it would go until it started to blow the hoses off, and it still skipped shots. In my case, the cocking mechanism is smooth as butter, so it seems like the ram is the culprit. I have yet to try and take it apart though.
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Old 08-28-2017, 10:38 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I'm resurrecting an old thread, because the same problem has cropped up again.

Last fall, I dropped off my autococker with Paintball Depot to tune and re-time. I had the HPR rebuilt, and the ram o-rings checked over. I also had the front QEV removed, leaving the one closest to the front block. This past April, I took it out to play for some walk-on fun at Skyline Paintball. During play I observed the following behavior:

1. Midway through the day, my velocity tanked. I was clearing out the back of the enemy's side of the field, and found I had to get extra close because my shots were lobbing, and the gun was burping and uncocking. I head off the field after that game and rechrony, to find that I was shooting 220bps. I dial it back up to field velocity (280, I think), fire off several strings at the target range, I get the tank topped up, and got back into the game.

2. Two games later, second to last game, I've taken the ridge and begin to rain paint on the other team, below. Gun uncocks: I fire, it "burps", and the back block is stuck 3/4 of the back on the recocking cycle. The ram won't let me push it forward. The cocking rod is dialed in tight. I have to pull the back block back, feeling the sear catch the lug as I do so. Now, I'm getting 2-3 shots off before the gun stalls/sticks in the recock cycle, and I have to pull the back block again to re-engage the sear lug. I was also cranking up the LPR by 1/2 turns (I was taking fire) to get it to shoot reliably, but I shouldn't have needed to do this since I just had it shooting ropes at the target range.

3. Just like the initial occurrence back in 2014, this problem only crept up after I'd shot about a half case of through the gun.

So, the first time my (stock) IVG has mysteriously backed itself out dropping my velocity to the point where the gun would not reliably fire. I've never had this happen before. The second incident matches my initial problem from 2014. He's my throw-ideas-at-the-wall-let's-see-what-sticks:
A. IVG needs checking/cleaning/replacement. Or I need to add a drop of blue locktite to it.
B. The ram loses pressure before the pump arm is pushed fully back. It needs to be rebuilt.
C. The Rock LPR is creeping down, starving the ram of pressure. It needs to be rebuilt.
D. The LPR knob is backing out during firing. I don't know how to fix that, if so.

I appreciate any suggestions you gurus may have.
Thanks!
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Old 08-28-2017, 11:09 AM   #10 (permalink)
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does the trigger return forward when back block sticks? if so id bet on the ram seal going bad.
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