CCI Home of the Phantom Pump Gun

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Old 10-01-2013, 03:54 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Ummm, what? You should check out the Phantom picture thread in the stickies in this forum. There are a lot of cosmetic variants to the Phantom, enough so that it's very rare to see any two that aren't pure black from the factory look much alike.

They do generally only vary so far though, because at the end of the day the Phantom is an almost absurdly simple marker whose parts are generally functional. There's not much you can deeply change about the marker and still have it work as intended.
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:09 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by whiteout View Post
There are a lot of cosmetic variants to the Phantom, enough so that it's very rare to see any two that aren't pure black from the factory look much alike.
I've always compared the Phantom to a LEGO set, as far as the ease (and fun) of being able to custom configure it any way that suits you. While it is true that you won't often see two identical looking Phantoms at any given time, there simply isn't a vast amount of new aftermarket parts for these guns. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single company/machinist who is currently offering a reliable flow of aftermarket, or custom parts for the Phantom right now. ASP's inventory of custom parts is, and has been out-of-stock for quite some time. ASP, Punisher, RTR, Jcurt, etc., etc. have all started off strong, but the second demand dropped off just a little, they completely ended their production. This holds true for the bigger companies like Lapco and CCM as well. Obviously no business owner/machinist wants to end up sitting on a bunch of inventory they can't move, and we're talking about a tiny niche market here. At the end of the day, the best a Phantom owner can hope for is a limited run of something cool. Whoever gets a hold of these rare parts "wins".

Originally Posted by whiteout View Post
...the Phantom is an almost absurdly simple marker whose parts are generally functional. There's not much you can deeply change about the marker and still have it work as intended.
Yes, exactly. This is single most important factor when it comes to creating custom parts, and one of the most over-looked by many machinists as well. "Form over function" is not something anyone who cares about maintenance or performance should consider. Once you compromise reliability, performance and ease of maintenance just to make it look cool, then you've lost me as an interested buyer. Hey, I like really cool-looking, custom one-off guns as much as the next guy. But if cool looking means my s#!t ain't gonna work, then what's the point? This is the reason why I don't use under-cocking kits. They may look cool, but they don't improve performance, they make maintenance more difficult, and I have yet to find one that doesn't work its way loose over time. So, I use the stock CCI pump, which doesn't look as cool, but always works.

Originally Posted by acidcustom View Post
As I usually do my designing on the fly and how I feel at that moment, it is hard to come up with some drawings.
I'll be honest here, "designing" without even having a sketch makes me extremely leery. The best designs I've ever seen not only consider how every detail will look up front, but how it will perform as well. I'm not sure how achieving a great design without hours of drawing, planning and forethought can be accomplished.

Here on MCB, I've seen quite a few other machinists who are looking to launch a new product post multiple CAD drawings and then photos of a prototype in an effort to generate support and gauge interest - long before the production model is released. Even then there has been a high probability that they won't follow through with delivering on their promises (note how I'm not mentioning any names here). It's unnerving to read all of the stories of machinists who start off with the best intentions only to end up in the MCB "Hall Of Shame" with a long thread of outraged customers who have been waiting years for what they paid for.

I'm not saying that's the case here at all, or trying to bash anyone in any way. I'm just saying that most of the members here on MCB are "once bitten, twice shy" when it comes to embracing a custom part or product from a new or relatively unknown machinist. At this point, even the well established machinists (that are still left) are being scrutinized. Since a machinist's reputation and perceived ability to deliver on their promises is such a critical part of the equation, it's definitely worth mentioning.
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Old 10-02-2013, 03:58 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Let me put you at ease
I do sketches and start with that but being from the old school I cant do all this rendering and 3D cad as when I did my apprenticeship there weren't things called computers so you had to visualise the parts in your head what they would look like so the only drawings I do are all 2D versions and very flat. So the final version is done on the fly and then I do the final drawings and at that stage it is the prototype.
I never take pre-orders and not finish the parts, I will always do my very best to communicate about progress and if there are any major hold ups, I only do small runs as I also have a day job to pay the bills and cant hammer out hundreds of the parts thats why I am a custom parts maker, I don't want to make 100's of something there is just no satisfaction in that, I leave that to the big boys to provide that part that everyone has.
AS I asked in the beginning all I want at the moment are ideas and interest so I can make something which is FUNCTIONAL & UNIQUE for people who want to be individuals not one of the hoard.

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Old 10-02-2013, 08:25 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I'd be interested in a customized body for my phantom, price depending of course.

As a potential customer:
- I prefer an open class phantom over a sniper.
- As of yet, don't play stock class.
- I'm not much for rails and what-not on my markers as I don't see the point nor imo do I think they look all that good either.
- I love the looks of a karta, ripper, chord, dallara, or phoenix bodied automag.

There are some interesting builds out there and I would think that a custom body would be very sought after. A player who has a phantom build with a rtr trigger group, 86 frame, lapco internals, cocker threaded body (asp detent - I would speak to haveblue about that) custom feedtube (sc players), rainman undercocking kit, would prolly go gaga over a cool custom body..... just saying.

* the above doesn't describe my personal marker btw. A lot of those parts are hard to come by.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:41 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Yes, this. Grip frames are the most in demand piece. I would love to buy a couple of *86 frames with Hogue grips.

Originally Posted by Slim View Post
Now that I'm thinking about it, if you're interested in producing custom Phantom parts I'd suggest doing a grip frame. Based just on the threads here on MCB you'll see there is a definite demand.

Jcurt's 90 grip frame was pretty decent, but needed to be thicker (wider), and there always seems to be someone raving about the CCM 86 frame for the Phantom. Another grip that seems to be all the rage is the Pachmayr Vindicator AR grip.

Trouble with all of these is you can't get 'em anymore. A sick new Phantom grip would sell like hotcakes, and the best part is you wouldn't have to worry if it were stock-class or open-class.

If it was made well, compatible with with existing aftermarket grip options, drilled to accommodate existing bottomline/CCI stocks and was comfortable, then every Phantom owner on the planet would want one. Once you got the design right, the biggest problem would be keeping up with the demand.

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Old 10-02-2013, 02:02 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Don't get me wrong I love my 86* frame, but I find it to small I think I should just get a piece of aluminium and\or stainless steel and extend it. The 45* that Mike makes is to thin personally and I hate fingered grips and grip panels. I asked Mike if he had a thicker one and he said no.
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Old 10-02-2013, 02:58 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Happy Chewy, you need to try out the Metadyne .45 block if you have huge honkin' hands. I have some on my Phantoms, 'Cats and random other guns and they are great. They may be a little TOO big.

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Old 10-02-2013, 08:36 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Just a thought. Cosmetic body slides. Not every over cocking kit needs to be a "duckslide" or pistol like of some sort. That may even be a little more doable than a "karta" style body. Maybe a karta style slide that goes over the whole maker with the pump action built into it.

Just my thought on the body, since the base bodies are rather thin.
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:40 PM   #19 (permalink)
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That is a very good idea donut. I second it.
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:33 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I kindly take issue with your below claim:

"ASP, Punisher, RTR, Jcurt, etc., etc. have all started off strong, but the second demand dropped off just a little, they completely ended their production."

Although from the outside looking in it may appear to be the case. In my case nothing could be farther from the truth. I choose not to farm the Gargoyle out of state or out of country. Because I choose this, production comes to a halt as we all know. Making money is not my goal. The machine shop that did finally agree to make the Gargoyle did so after years of literally weekly/daily visits pitching it to them. They did make it, and for that I am gratefull. But that option is no longer available.

However, I have invested tens of thousands of dollars in an attempt to make them in house and that saga continues every day.

Implying that I bailed out on people because interest dropped off cannot be farther from the truth. My plans have not changed and interest levels have not dropped off. My inbox tells me so.

I always explain to people when asked what the situation is. I am always truthful and make no false promises.

So, to all reading this...I am still here and will be for a long time. What I am able to get done is always a variable. But I never, nor do I plan to, bail out for reasons as selfish as the statement implied.

I'm not mad. Not at all. Just felt the need to clarify my position.


P.S. I still have grip frames for sale.

Last edited by RTR; 10-03-2013 at 12:52 AM.
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