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View Poll Results: Which Valve Body/Stem Combo?
Palmers Valve Body 7 70.00%
Palmers Valve Stem 7 70.00%
Check-it Delrin Body 2 20.00%
Check-it Delrin Stem 4 40.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-22-2015, 02:06 PM   #1 (permalink)
Pancake
 
Join Date: Jul 2015

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Which Cocker Internals For A Pump

Hello

I currently have a half-blocked AIM eagle body, CCM'd to high hell--feed neck, back block, bolt, regulator, lower tube kit, 86 frame, and macro fittings. Using a 12" deadlywind, it shoots just the way I was expecting it to when building it. I run it pretty low pressure, IVG about 2.5 turns in and getting 285fps (+/- 5 max), with a nice soft sound profile.
I love the way it turned out, but another reason I got this was to tinker with different parts, which I am not about to do on my T2.

Anyways, I want to try out more low pressure valve body/stem combibnations. On PBGateway, there are a couple that look like they offer higher flow to run lower pressure. I was wondering if anybody has any experience with, or comments on these

Palmers Pursuit Autococker Low Turbulence Exhaust Valve Kit - Low Pressure Output - (#3L19)



or

Check It Autococker Low Pressure Turbo Exhaust Valve Guide Body - Delrin - (#3J1)
Check It Autococker Low Pressure Turbo Exhaust Valve Cupseal - Delrin - (#3N28)





Palmers seems to make good stuff, and if I get the Check-it Valve body, I would probably try to run the Palmers valve stem on it. I'm not sure of any advantages to the delrin check-it parts, and the weight difference is negligible compared to the overall weight. If anybody knew and cared to share, it would be appreciated. Also I know Check-it made a series of rather affordable pumps, and was wondering if their products are generally good quality, or cheap.
Again, I am just looking into these for fun, I have no problem with my current setup. If something works out better, I will use it. That's what I'm going for.

Any knowledge would be greatly appreciated!
-zac
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Old 07-22-2015, 02:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I haven't tried either of the above valves, but if I would steer clear of the Check-it valve (there are multiple palmers valves on ebay for under 30 bucks). I have, however used both the Shocktech RAT Valve and the AKA Tornado Valve extensively. In my opinion, pray to the AKA gods that a Tornado Valve shows up somewhere and collect a ton of springs (I have three red madman springs valve springs and two blue mainsprings, only one of each of them gave me the results I wanted). Incidentally, I traded the Rat Valve for the Tornado valve: I know I got the better end of the deal, but someone wanted a blue aluminum valve
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Old 07-22-2015, 03:05 PM   #3 (permalink)
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IIRC all of the pbgateway snipers come with the check-it internals. I thought they were pretty smooth, and nice. My experience with it is less farting than the ccm valve, and negligible difference in smoothness. I was actually really surprised by how nice the check-it stuff is (pump kit and internals). Of course that is one particular instance. I don't know about how consistent the products are.
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Old 07-22-2015, 05:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rocks View Post
I haven't tried either of the above valves, but if I would steer clear of the Check-it valve (there are multiple palmers valves on ebay for under 30 bucks). I have, however used both the Shocktech RAT Valve and the AKA Tornado Valve extensively. In my opinion, pray to the AKA gods that a Tornado Valve shows up somewhere and collect a ton of springs (I have three red madman springs valve springs and two blue mainsprings, only one of each of them gave me the results I wanted). Incidentally, I traded the Rat Valve for the Tornado valve: I know I got the better end of the deal, but someone wanted a blue aluminum valve :confused:
From what I've heard the Tornado sounds like a good valve to have for sure. It just seems kind of expensive for how similar it is to other valves. Like I understand why the Morph valve would be so expensive. Palmers is the other option over check-it in this situation, do you have any specific situations in which the check-it has failed or been less than sufficient?

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Originally Posted by Keys_JR View Post
IIRC all of the pbgateway snipers come with the check-it internals. I thought they were pretty smooth, and nice. My experience with it is less farting than the ccm valve, and negligible difference in smoothness. I was actually really surprised by how nice the check-it stuff is (pump kit and internals). Of course that is one particular instance. I don't know about how consistent the products are.
Yeah for the price, it seems like it would be worth picking up. Assuming there are no major design changes, I feel like there shouldnt be any problem with consistency. Im leaning towards the palmers combo for $37 rather than the check-it for $50.

I figure I can always go pick up the delrin body to see the difference.


Thanks for the replies, anybody else with firsthand experience with these internals?
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Old 07-28-2015, 03:45 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Palmers makes good stuff, but I've only had experience with their high pressure valve for running unregged co2. Honestly though, the best results I've ever gotten have been with an all stainless STO lower tube.
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Old 07-29-2015, 02:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Palmers makes good stuff, but I've only had experience with their high pressure valve for running unregged co2. Honestly though, the best results I've ever gotten have been with an all stainless STO lower tube.
I'm looking for something that I can get my hands on, do you ha e any leads towards one of these?
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Old 07-30-2015, 03:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Without having checked recently, I think pbgateway might have some. If its not listed on their site give them a call, they probably have a set sitting around. Also check on the B/S/T's here, im sure theres plenty of people with complete lower tube internals sitting around. The stainless STO guts that WGP made in their later years are on par, if not better, than a lot of aftermarket guts. They run at a higher pressure than, say, a RAT valve or tornado, but in my experience they're less finicky and less picky because of that. Your mileage may vary.
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Old 07-30-2015, 04:19 PM   #8 (permalink)
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An interesting valve is the Madman rocket valve, which might make a good (entertaining) comparison.

I look at a few things on valves.

1) Port size. I make sure the body and valve ports line up and are the same size. Larger for lower pressure. No point in having extra steps in the flow path.

2) I like narrow, "high flow" stems for HPA or low pressure CO2. Just for the higher flow area.

3) Transition finish (the 90 degree turn) and stem support inside. Some valves have pockets in them that should cause more turbulence. Some have different stem tolerances (or o-rings on the stem).

4) Poppet shape. The closer to a flat disk you get, the more drag you have from flow, and the wider the pressure sweet spot will be with a lower maximum flow rate, compared to something profiled like the rocket valve. This goes against the forces on the springs and hammer to control valve dwell, which applies the pressure versus time behind the ball and along the length of the various barrel bores.

I've never found anything magical, but it's interesting.
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Old 07-30-2015, 07:07 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Your planning on using this for a pump so i would recommned the palmers valve (if you really have money burning a whole in your pocket). Do not bother with an AKA valve, it requires heavy/stiff springs for it to work like advertised and would not give the smooth/light pump stroke you want. You could honestly just use stock wgp internals and go to your local harware store and mess around until you find a nice setup. Or you can talk to maggot and get a set of SLPS springs and not have to worry about finding a good spring combo. I personally use a palmers valve with a stainless wgp valve pin.

Edit: also stay away from the check delrin valve just because it is made of delrin. There is a reason most other valve bodies are made from brass

Last edited by 608WIscompton; 07-30-2015 at 07:12 PM.
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Old 07-30-2015, 09:57 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I have mixed results with using the palmer valve stem. I've owned 2 so far, and one recently failed much sooner than I expected, as compared to a delrin valve stem.

I installed the palmer valve body and stem in a sniper I built over a year ago, and the sniper developed a leak down the barrel last week. This sniper was used fairly regularly over the year.

I pulled the valve and noticed that the rubber o-ring embedded into the brass body of the valve stem had become dislodged. I was unable to repair the cup seal and must buy another.

Perhaps I was unlucky, but I've never had that issue happen with a cheaper delrin valve stem/cup seal.
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