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Old 03-11-2019, 04:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Nelson Based Marker Concept

Wanted to share a marker concept I've been messing with during my down time and get your thoughts.

The goal has been pretty simple, design a small pump action marker that utilizes an attached vertical spring feed that can be quickly reloaded off standard/cheap ten round tubes. The CAD images below are very very early in the development stage, mostly just seeing if a custom nelson valve train could support a design like this and the short answer I think is yes. Certainly custom internals but similar to a phantom or hammer 7 (kind of a hybrid between the two).

Basic functionality for reloading is to drive the follower down to the base of the spring feed where it will automatically lock in place by a spring loaded catch. At this point a ten round tube is pushed into the spring loaded trap door on top which hinges downward and allows for the paint to fall through the breech and into the spring feed. Once the ten round tube is removed the trap door returns to its horizontal position. The large button on the side (similar location to an AR-15 mag release) is used to release the spring feed and begin feeding paintballs into the breech.

What is not currently shown is a bolt or sear catch that is activated by the follower in the spring feed. This catch will lock the internals in the rearward position allowing the marker to be easily loaded if the pump is spring assisted. Once the follower is dropped and the pump is pushed back slightly the catch will drop and the pump will return forward without interference. Hope that makes sense, haha. Think of a last round round hold open on a firearm, when it's time to reload the internal assembly locks back in place.

There's plenty of more work that needs to go into the design but was also interested in thoughts on demand for a marker like this. To me it seems like a nice cross between pump and mag feed play for those that want a really small/light setup and not have to worry about carrying a mags, etc.

Couple thoughts on my next steps for this:
- Spin the trap door around, this will fix the breech opening and potential feed issues, will result in a slightly longer pump stroke but should be a more efficient design
- Separate the body into two pieces (body like a phantom and a top rail assembly that will run back over the valve as well)
- Barrel thread decision, cocker or other type?
- Steel/delrin hybrid bolt
- Brass hammer
- Continue to review and refine mechanisms, etc. For this to be viable mechanisms need to be simple and cheap
- Consider First Strike compatibility, this would require a longer body and custom 10 round tubes (D shape profile) if loading was to be efficient
- And plenty more...

Onto the eye candy, as mentions very early in development but you get the general idea...









Cheers!

Last edited by Lane; 03-11-2019 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I like the internal magazine idea. Very bolt action esque.
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I like it, great idea! Definitely cocker thread, will make the most people happy (by a vast majority).

Have you considered making it bore drop instead of breach drop? There's quite a large step that will be rough on paint, when the mag is pushing balls up and the bolt is shoving them forward... Would make accommodating FSR in the future easier, too.

Love the feed-gate trap door too, but I'm not sure about its geometry in the current state. There would be quite a large slot cut into the ceiling of the breach that's left un-sealed, where gasses will escape when the ball fires. Switching to bore-drop could fix that, with a longer nose on the bolt that pushes the ball past that area and into the barrel proper.

Will the magazine be removable for cleaning? (and for pissing off event-hosts who declare a magfed gun must have a detachable magazine?)

More ideas... It looks like it would be easy to make the follower-release ambidextrous by mirroring the part? Just smaller on the left side to allow for the follower. Honestly, it's very cool but way too huge on the right side anyway. I would be concerned that pressing on the far length of that button would torque in the slot and bind.
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Last edited by freedummy; 03-11-2019 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Looks awesome to me
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:58 PM   #5 (permalink)
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What about using a tube almost like a stripper clip? You push the tube down the loading gate to catch the follower, and the balls will fill the mag upon lifting it out?
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Old 03-11-2019, 05:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Cool. Tubes are cheaper than mags. Nice.
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Old 03-11-2019, 06:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Old 03-11-2019, 06:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Anything nelson based.....and especially breech drop is neat.
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Old 03-11-2019, 06:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BLINDMAN Pb View Post
What about using a tube almost like a stripper clip? You push the tube down the loading gate to catch the follower, and the balls will fill the mag upon lifting it out?

I thought about this on a project of mine. But I was wondering if it would have a problem due to the fact that the ID of the magazine would have to be bigger than the OD of the 10 round tube. Which might make the ball stack in the mag staggered...?
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Old 03-11-2019, 07:31 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by freedummy View Post
I like it, great idea! Definitely cocker thread, will make the most people happy (by a vast majority).

Have you considered making it bore drop instead of breach drop? There's quite a large step that will be rough on paint, when the mag is pushing balls up and the bolt is shoving them forward... Would make accommodating FSR in the future easier, too.

Love the feed-gate trap door too, but I'm not sure about its geometry in the current state. There would be quite a large slot cut into the ceiling of the breach that's left un-sealed, where gasses will escape when the ball fires. Switching to bore-drop could fix that, with a longer nose on the bolt that pushes the ball past that area and into the barrel proper.

Will the magazine be removable for cleaning? (and for pissing off event-hosts who declare a magfed gun must have a detachable magazine?)

More ideas... It looks like it would be easy to make the follower-release ambidextrous by mirroring the part? Just smaller on the left side to allow for the follower. Honestly, it's very cool but way too huge on the right side anyway. I would be concerned that pressing on the far length of that button would torque in the slot and bind.
For shooting FSR you almost need a bore drop because of the geometry on the tail end of the FSR paintballs. So yes, in order to do FSR I'd have to adjust the design to be a bore drop which is a possibility but we'll see. My biggest concern with FSR is loading, because you're "pouring" them into a tall narrow passage they run a good risk of binding up.

Flipping the trap door around solves the vent issue which is why i'll probably take it that direction if the feed stays top center.

Mag will like be fixed with a set screw or other fastener (pin, etc.)

Thought about trying to make the marker completely ambidextrous, it's a possibility but will come more into play as the design is further developed. I can certainly shave some size off the spring release button but want to keep it relatively large for ease of use. Reach forward and depress with your trigger finger ideally. Since depressing the button while mid mag doesn't do anything I'm not too concerned with accidental depress while playing.

Also you can't see it in the images but the release button is pin hinged at the front of the mag well so as long as you're depressing anywhere near the back half it should work.

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Originally Posted by BLINDMAN Pb View Post
What about using a tube almost like a stripper clip? You push the tube down the loading gate to catch the follower, and the balls will fill the mag upon lifting it out?
Largest problem I see with this is the OD of the ten round tubes. To make it user friendly, you really need an internal spring feed ID of around .90". I'm trying to keep the actual tube from needing to enter breech because of this. The hole diameters needed are too large in my opinion. Very cool idea though, didn't think of that.
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