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Old 11-21-2012, 03:56 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Obvious Troll OP is obvious.

You won't be changing any minds here.
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:01 AM   #42 (permalink)
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I have to wonder if you have ever tried to land a single shot from an SMG on to an opponent?
-Certainly. Both the .60 (.62 cal) and .68 cal.

You have to keep in mind, however, that different markers have different applications- an SMG isn't a sniper rifle, it's a CQB, or close quarters battle, marker.

Stock-classers play with only 10 or 15 rounds in the gun, and a deliberately slow method of reloading. How is the 15 or 20 rounds and slow reloading on an SMG any different? Accuracy? When you're only 20 feet away in a narrow hallway- with a machine gun- who cares?

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They are horrible markers, yet they demand $700-800.
-The SMG-68s command high prices in large part due to their relative rarity. The SMG-60 was made for several years, and in the tens of thousands- that and the fact they use an essentially unobtainable caliber of paint keeps their demand, and thus value, fairly low.

The SMG-68, however, was made only briefly, possibly even for less than a year before Tippmann redesigned it into the direct-feed 68-Special. And a fair number of those that were made, were converted to 68 Specials as well, so even the original number has dropped some.

And finally, unlike the '60, the '68 can still use common paint, so instead of a mere wallhanger, like the '60, or the Model 85, or the AGA 62, you can still use an SMG 68. And who wouldn't like going out and hosing TWIBs with a gun ten years older than they are?

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[...]but it just started getting to me all the love for the old school that was crap. I hope you can see my point.
-Sorry, I can't. As noted earlier, you're posting to a website that specifically caters to players to enjoy the older markers. Of course you're going to see a lot of fawning over antiques. What did you expect?!? That's like going to Hot Rod Magazine's forum, asking "Why does anyone still want a '55 Chevy? Give me a new Prius any day!", and then wondering why everyon'es getting so worked up.

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Within the last ten years, I have owned two Cherry Bushmasters. When I took them out, they were horribly inconsistent and beyond that inaccurate compared to what I currently use.
-Presumably you understand that it was the condition of your particular markers, not all older markers in general, right?

Just this summer, I put together two circa-1997 LED Angels, one of which hadn't been assembled in twelve years. Both worked very well; fast, consistent and accurate.

A poor carpenter, perhaps, blames his tools?

Doc.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:28 AM   #43 (permalink)
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because less is more.. just like death by teacup.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:46 AM   #44 (permalink)
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because less is more.. just like death by teacup.
Lol love the reference!
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:20 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:23 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Obvious Troll OP is obvious.

You won't be changing any minds here.
I'm not trying to change minds and further more, I'm not trolling. You have to be kidding me...
I'm asking for peoples input. I have gotten some very good answers and actually see some good points.
I think a lot have mentioned here the barrel. When I play with old markers, I use the original barrels. Probably part of my problem.
Doc, when you refer to Angels as old, I really see them as more "mid school" not old, like a Bushmaster. and there are many very good "mid school" markers out there IMHO. I have a Tribal that is awesome, consistent and rips.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:28 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RatFink View Post
so it's probably a mute point.
THE PHRASE IS MOOT POINT. MOOT FFS!!!!!!

The same reason people like driving 50s muscle cars, shooting blackpowder guns, shaving with straight razors, camping in a tent instead of an RV, etc. Just because it's newer doesn't mean it's better; if it still satisfies the given purpose you'll often find that the older solution is more robust anyway.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:35 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RatFink View Post
I'm not trying to change minds and further more, I'm not trolling. You have to be kidding me...
I'm asking for peoples input. I have gotten some very good answers and actually see some good points.
I think a lot have mentioned here the barrel. When I play with old markers, I use the original barrels. Probably part of my problem.
Doc, when you refer to Angels as old, I really see them as more "mid school" not old, like a Bushmaster. and there are many very good "mid school" markers out there IMHO. I have a Tribal that is awesome, consistent and rips.

So...what you were talking about specifically are old markers that don't really perform all that well and yet command high prices?

I can see some in that category.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:38 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:02 AM   #50 (permalink)
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That said i have to disagree to some extent with both of these points. Many "Modern" markers win in 3 categories: ROF, weight, and consistency. The first 2 are arguably irrelevant, and when it comes to playing for fun all 3 are... but the consistency between shots IS going to effect accuracy to some extent. A bolt hitting and opening a valve simply cannot compete with super precise electronics and solenoids.

that said i sill rock a mag 9 times out of 10
I tested guns for 5 years for PGI and still do reviews for online magazines...and the most consistent gun I ever shot was a VSC Phantom. 282, 282, 282, I even went and changed the battery on my chrono as I was convinced it couldn't be that stable from a 12g with a detent ring as the 'bore'. Results may vary but I don't feel that there's any huge advantage to be had via electronics.
Re older guns; I still use a milled 2k4 Viking more often than not in tournaments and it does just fine, ever since a lot of manufacturing went to the Far East quality, finish and workmanship aren't always as good as the 'good old days' of milling stuff out of billet in the US/UK instead of...other methods
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