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Old 01-15-2016, 09:29 PM   #301 (permalink)
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Threads like this pop up regularly.
"We" should *blah blah blah*
Who is "we"?
No disrespect to Diomedes, who is a learned and respectable member of the forum, but the power sought herein belongs to field owners.
"We" can all agree on the best course of action and the result will be bumpkiss.
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Old 01-15-2016, 09:57 PM   #302 (permalink)
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I know one guy that ignored the rules and crossed the pond. Rule breakers will break rules.
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Old 01-15-2016, 10:01 PM   #303 (permalink)
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I don't think it got more intense at all. I've heard plenty of stories about some of the early paintball players and some of them were pretty unhinged. Lots of special operations operator soldier of fortune types, or mostly people that perceived themselves as such.

Back in the day there was a lot of media smear campaigns saying that paintball was training camps for anti government militia due to the notion it attracted these people. Remember, back in the 80's and early 90's bearded white men living or playing in the woods were the terrorist threat.

That's were speedball came from. It was to try to change the image of paintball replacing the camo with colorful jerseys and making the markers look completely different then real guns. Now people perceive speedball players as giving paintball a bad image. It's ironic, but realize this debate is not new.

But as soon as the franchise model hit the scene paintball became a business then some guys playing in the woods. At this point paintball was sold as a fun family/career teambuilding/bachelor party/etc. kind of activity. But, with that fields have always tried to keep the gear owners separate from their cash cow rental business.

Yes, most people that play do it as a one time thing, there is nothing we can or can't do to change that. But, like I said for those that haven't been new for a while read the Yelp reviews of fields to get a better perspective. Even if those one time players never intended to come back before even playing they are the ones that are the most vocal on the Yelp reviews.
The history there is a little messed up. The first paintball fields were franchises (NSG).

The 'paramilitaries' who were playing paintball back then were no different than folks who often get accused of playing too much Call of Duty before showing up at the paintball field today. To get a sense of what was really happening, you need to read the early magazines. The military relationship was more along the lines of scenarios (i.e. the setting for a game), and applying what were military tradecrafts like camo, tactics, and communications because in the longer, larger game formats, those tactics work. None of the articles said anything like "You master these techniques you'll do fine in actual ground combat".

A lot of folks tend to think that just because someone wants a 'war game' that they will lose all perspective of what real war (or other armed conflict) is and isn't. To me, that sounds a lot like what groups were saying about Dungeons and Dragons making kids wander into sewers and killing each other in some made up ritual...

Speedball came about not because of trying to get rid of 'militarism'. While it was a factor, after the first failed attempt at bringing paintball to a mainstream audience (The 'woodsball' ESPN show), they needed to change the format to make it spectator-friendly. Banning camo in tournaments came a few years later. So, the first motivator was profit, the second would be making it less 'militaristic'.

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I'll have to disagree. I think the game got more intense until probably the mid/late 2000's. After guns like the Ion came out, I don't think it's gotten much more intense.

I agree that there have always been "unhinged" players and the game has never totally been without problems, but the general intensity level on the field increased with every increase in the amount of paint in the air. If you think the game had the same intensity in 2005 as it had in 1985 or 1995, I have a feeling you will be in the minority.
I think the intensity of the game is a nuanced subject. In one sense, intensity is greatly represented by the volume of paint in the air. In another sense, a good number of players want to be able to do crazy moves like sprinting across an open area to bunker someone but, not suffer the consequences of 20+ shots (by wearing a bounce shirt / body armor). In the early days, body armor for men was strongly looked down on, and it was the 'crazy' guys who would rush a bunker (and fail as much as succeed at taking out a defender). The failures were just as much fun to talk about as the successes.

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I always see listed in the field rules no climbing trees, no booby traps, and no moving or constructing bunkers. I'm going to guess these were from the previous generation of players back in the day. It wouldnt be a rule at every field if at one point it didnt happen all the time.
You've discounted how much influence insurance companies have had on the game. A lot of paintball fields are covered by a relatively small number of insurers- they are why the 'semi-auto only' rule is so prevalent. The other rules you mentioned are indeed most likely the result of somebody attempting it but, across several states, it'd only happen once for insurers to ban it for an entire region/world.
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Unfortunately all of you have played the one "speedball" game of paintball for so long you can't conceive of other ways to do this and hence any new ideas seem stupid.

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Old 01-15-2016, 10:05 PM   #304 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Axel View Post
Threads like this pop up regularly.
"We" should *blah blah blah*
Who is "we"?
No disrespect to Diomedes, who is a learned and respectable member of the forum, but the power sought herein belongs to field owners.
"We" can all agree on the best course of action and the result will be bumpkiss.
Which is pretty much what I always say. Want to play differently? Do a private game. Don't like how a field does it? Go to a different field. I think Diomedes came to this conclusion and is over this thread. There's nothing that these threads ever accomplish unless you're like me and you just like to debate for the point of debating.

Last edited by theangrydragon; 01-15-2016 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 01-16-2016, 02:05 PM   #305 (permalink)
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You did. You were there. You came back.
i came back a couple times, then realized my equipment couldnt keep up in the middle of the speedball craze and i quit for years.

now im back again, and i still find myself wondering why tourney players play against rentals shooting ropes of paint. i firmly believe paintball would be more fun if the rate of fire was lower and im not alone. you can say forget it but clearly this topic generates strong feelings.

just cause a small number of people come back doesnt mean we cant make it better. thats a logical fallacy. but i respect your opinion.
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Old 01-16-2016, 03:47 PM   #306 (permalink)
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unless you're like me and you just like to debate for the point of debating.
Guilty. You didn't think I would unknowingly stumble over this hornets' nest, did you? The point is to have the discussion, and to get people thinking about what they do on the field.
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Old 01-16-2016, 06:16 PM   #307 (permalink)
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It occurs to me that for everyone to enjoy a game we should all have equivalent equipment and paint supply. This tends not to be the case since renters get foggy stinky masks and farting, mis-feeding, hookshooting markers.

More money = more paintballs = significant advantage for the player with the deepest pockets.

The commercial paintball experience just plain sucks.
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Old 01-16-2016, 08:57 PM   #308 (permalink)
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Guilty. You didn't think I would unknowingly stumble over this hornets' nest, did you? The point is to have the discussion, and to get people thinking about what they do on the field.
Played today with a mixed environment. I shot an ULE RT, a S5 autococker, Onslaught and a classic mag (mech, mech, electro, mech) A lot of the competition had electros and were what I would consider the novice type of player. I didn't hear one work about overshooting all day. When a rental shot at me, I only ever one balled them back. I tried to keep the renters having fun and I had to almost drag one inside the bunker with me to keep him getting shot from the opposition player, but at least he didn't get taken out of the game like he would have been if I would have just sat there and watched his get shot.

This thread was in the back of my mind all day. So thanks for that...
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Old 01-16-2016, 09:10 PM   #309 (permalink)
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Guilty. ... The point is to have the discussion, and to get people thinking about what they do on the field.
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....This thread was in the back of my mind all day. So thanks for that...
Agree... while not everyone agrees completely with the OPs idea, just having the discussion about it as well as other ideas about improving the new players experience put the idea into people's minds and will have some impact.
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Old 01-18-2016, 10:31 PM   #310 (permalink)
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I cant afford to shoot elctro's anymore since paint at the field went up to $75 a case. Started playing stock class and the field is generous enough to let me bring the paint i buy from them back to the field. I go around buying left over paint from group parties that end up buying way more than they can shoot off in their time limit. With a shelf life of 6months 1 or 2 cases is about a years worth of paint for me. I usually taunt the guys shooting the electro's going "nice, 15+ misses a second right there."
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