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Old 11-04-2017, 12:08 PM   #121 (permalink)
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I've scored Helix thermal masks with working clear lenses on eBay for $25 including shipping (usually from first-time sellers or eBay newbies), I've bought a 10 pack of Empire replacement clear thermal lenses for $130 after haggling with an eBay seller

Its a great time to buy quality paintball products because people are exiting the game of paintball, but I'm sure they'll be drawn back in once things fix themselves
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Old 11-04-2017, 02:22 PM   #122 (permalink)
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A field would have a wholesale account with the manufacturers. Their prices on masks would be way better than that. But it's still not reasonable to spend triple in labor costs to maintain them, when fields are struggling to begin with.
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Old 11-08-2017, 02:10 PM   #123 (permalink)
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I'd play more if CQB Toronto was still open.

I'd play more if the indoor places weren't either sand floors with eternally goop covered buildings or astroturf with inflatable bunkers.

I'd play more if I regularly had enough people to book private parties, because otherwise I know it's going to suck.

I maintain enough gear for four players including four thermal masks and four of the same marker. Like any other game, paintball isn't fun if you don't all have equivalent gear. This is probably the single biggest problem with the current model.
couldn't agree more. if your field doesn't have a decent player base ur SOL!!!

lucky enough for me there's a strong player base of experienced players in my area.
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Old 11-12-2017, 12:06 AM   #124 (permalink)
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Coming from a modified stock type guy (10 round tubes but 13ci tank) who likes to play aggressive but sneaky... a bit of a safety nut. If the latter problems weren't so prevalent, I would play more.

1) SAFETY (Operations): I don't want to watch the following happen again: seeing someone get shot in the face in the staging area, seeing people walk around with unbagged markers, the same people holding their markers barrel up, the same people getting belligerent at people who tell them they're being unsafe, the same people eventually accidentally shooting other people/their stuff, people totally removing their masks in the middle of games, those occurrences not stopping games, referees lacking assertiveness to confront dangerous patrons, field owners reluctant to eject players being dangerous/negligent/aggressive towards other players.

2) SAFETY (Facilities) I don't want the following to happen to me again: dropping a knee on a rusty nail sticking out of the grass, having a rusty nail puncture my boot (luckily only barely getting through the insole), getting caught on barbed wire hidden in underbrush, running into a knee high stump hidden in slightly higher grass than said stump, getting cut up on aluminum panel, sliding into cow poop, sliding into still water next to a venomous snake, rolling my ankle in pot holes, getting shot in the staging area by a ball from the field.

3) I get that fields want to sell paint above all, but I'm tired of timed, unlimited respawn games on narrow fields. It's not fun when the key to success in any given engagement is to be the team slinging the most paint. It's not fun when there's no risk of truly being eliminated from the game. It feels more like a carnival shooting gallery than any sort of strategic endeavor. My play style is not rewarded.

I love speedball 'n' everything, but it attracts *******s.

4) Speaking of *******s: I'm tired of people shooting up people's equipment bags, stealing gear, dropping rental masks and markers on the floor, picking up MY equipment from a table and using it in a game (GF and I let our guard down when the good people were around and some renter decided it was time to grab our stuff and use it in a game when we weren't looking). Aggressive players beating up on new/scared kids.

5) I can't stand waiting more than 20 minutes for staff to assemble the aforementioned gigantic games.


There's more, but I have been out of the game for a year (after being back into it for a year) because of this nonsense.

Last edited by Tolgak; 11-12-2017 at 12:14 AM.
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Old 11-12-2017, 02:59 AM   #125 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tolgak View Post
Coming from a modified stock type guy (10 round tubes but 13ci tank) who likes to play aggressive but sneaky... a bit of a safety nut. If the latter problems weren't so prevalent, I would play more.

1) SAFETY (Operations): I don't want to watch the following happen again: seeing someone get shot in the face in the staging area, seeing people walk around with unbagged markers, the same people holding their markers barrel up, the same people getting belligerent at people who tell them they're being unsafe, the same people eventually accidentally shooting other people/their stuff, people totally removing their masks in the middle of games, those occurrences not stopping games, referees lacking assertiveness to confront dangerous patrons, field owners reluctant to eject players being dangerous/negligent/aggressive towards other players.

2) SAFETY (Facilities) I don't want the following to happen to me again: dropping a knee on a rusty nail sticking out of the grass, having a rusty nail puncture my boot (luckily only barely getting through the insole), getting caught on barbed wire hidden in underbrush, running into a knee high stump hidden in slightly higher grass than said stump, getting cut up on aluminum panel, sliding into cow poop, sliding into still water next to a venomous snake, rolling my ankle in pot holes, getting shot in the staging area by a ball from the field.

3) I get that fields want to sell paint above all, but I'm tired of timed, unlimited respawn games on narrow fields. It's not fun when the key to success in any given engagement is to be the team slinging the most paint. It's not fun when there's no risk of truly being eliminated from the game. It feels more like a carnival shooting gallery than any sort of strategic endeavor. My play style is not rewarded.

I love speedball 'n' everything, but it attracts *******s.

4) Speaking of *******s: I'm tired of people shooting up people's equipment bags, stealing gear, dropping rental masks and markers on the floor, picking up MY equipment from a table and using it in a game (GF and I let our guard down when the good people were around and some renter decided it was time to grab our stuff and use it in a game when we weren't looking). Aggressive players beating up on new/scared kids.

5) I can't stand waiting more than 20 minutes for staff to assemble the aforementioned gigantic games.


There's more, but I have been out of the game for a year (after being back into it for a year) because of this nonsense.
I don't blame you. I wouldn't want to play where you play either. Are there no better facilities available in your neck of the woods?
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:19 AM   #126 (permalink)
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personally i've never seen noobies get shot up by an experienced player. honestly ive seen more run through aggression plays by renters than some of the people geared to the 9s in speedball attire lol.

unsafe facilities are something to consider, that sucks!

also as far as theft is concerned, all my valuables are in my car locked and safe. also the parking lot is quite close to the staging area so this is feasible. maybe bring a lock and key on your gear bag... i dunno.

like i said lucky enough for me there is a strong player base at my field and i am never in a game with renters.

Last edited by paintball69; 11-12-2017 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 11-12-2017, 11:01 AM   #127 (permalink)
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The list includes problems from all the places that I've played at over the last 15 years (VA, NC, SC, MS, GA, and all over FL), not just the ones available to me right now. Most places have up to 20% of these issues. Two of them had damn near all of them. I'm referencing paid fields, though the outlaw field I grew up with was also this problematic depending on which part of it you played on.

Sometimes it's slightly seasoned newbies with faster guns beating up on other newbies. Sometimes it's this father/son combo that likes to join renter parties and sling ropes at 10 year olds.

Last I played I kept most of my things in the car with easily replaceable convenience items with the staff. I was working toward a kit that basically leaves only paint, tubes, and tools behind.

Scenario games can be great (I can set up my own safe/secure area at my campsite), but they don't happen nearby and the last I've been to were just gigantic shooting galleries. What's the point of planning charge up a hill when only a handful out of hundreds available executes?

The game just gets stale when it caters to the once-a-year, paint flying = OMG SO MUCH ACTION types. I get that it's the core business for most fields and a low-profit player like me isn't going to have my needs met. Still, I'm happy to stand back and let newbies do all the playing as long as it's safe for everybody, which it often isn't.
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Old 11-13-2017, 12:57 PM   #128 (permalink)
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The usage of dual pane lenses nearly triples the cost of having rental masks. 100% more expensive to begin with/replace, and another 100% more labour intensive to maintain. You can't just dunk the mask in water, disinfect, and let dry. You have to physically take the lense out of the mask. If you're a big field, lots of clientele, you pay someone to do that. It very costly. And I don't think that's over estimating.
We switched over to Empire Helix thermals for our rental fleet last year. While you aren't necessarily wrong in your assessment, there are a few pieces that most people miss when they make this argument.

1. The first time player experience is 100% better which increases the likely hood of the player returning a second or third time.

2. Not only did we make the switch last year, we also included pod packs and chest protectors. We also raised our admission pricing.

3. Our rental players can now see everything and they feel a little better about getting shot due to the chest protectors. This makes them more aggressive=they shoot more paintballs. Since they have pod packs to carry more paintballs on them, they are less likely to run out of paintballs on the field.

Since last year, we have seen a 90 paintball per person increase in paint consumption. Combine that with a higher player return rate, the costs associated with the thermal masks are minimal compared to what me make because of it. More importantly, players are having a substantially better time.

We freely give this information out simply because thermal masks and good rental gear make the first time experience much more enjoyable, thus growing the sport...and that's what we want to see everywhere.
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Last edited by OSG Paintball; 11-13-2017 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:17 AM   #129 (permalink)
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...I have got to get my butt up to OSG sometime. The fields look amazing, I've heard nothing but great things through the grapevine, and now this thread... Class act, guy. Keep it up.

To add to the pot, I've introduced about 6 people to the game in the past few weeks. The rental masks were awful but they didn't know it, and just kept complaining that the lenses were fogged up. They weren't fogged up, though... they were just scratched to hell. (Boston Paintball Chelsea) I traded masks for the rest of the day so that people could take turns having clear vision. One of them bought his own thermal mask on the spot, and the rest are planning to buy them online. (Amazon has the Helix thermals for $31 right now, with Prime shipping...I remember paying that for a spectra lens by itself ) At any rate, it definitely had a major impact on how much they enjoyed the game. And as the rep. from OSG said, that correlates with more paint shot and repeat business.
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Old 11-14-2017, 05:37 PM   #130 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by OSG Paintball View Post
We switched over to Empire Helix thermals for our rental fleet last year. While you aren't necessarily wrong in your assessment, there are a few pieces that most people miss when they make this argument.

1. The first time player experience is 100% better which increases the likely hood of the player returning a second or third time.

2. Not only did we make the switch last year, we also included pod packs and chest protectors. We also raised our admission pricing.

3. Our rental players can now see everything and they feel a little better about getting shot due to the chest protectors. This makes them more aggressive=they shoot more paintballs. Since they have pod packs to carry more paintballs on them, they are less likely to run out of paintballs on the field.

Since last year, we have seen a 90 paintball per person increase in paint consumption. Combine that with a higher player return rate, the costs associated with the thermal masks are minimal compared to what me make because of it. More importantly, players are having a substantially better time.

We freely give this information out simply because thermal masks and good rental gear make the first time experience much more enjoyable, thus growing the sport...and that's what we want to see everywhere.
Good post. How long ar ethe lenses lasting before replacing approximately? How are you cleaning the masks...are you removing lenses and then dunking the masks? Dunking the masks without removing the lenses? Wiping and not dunking masks at all? Do your renters wipe their own lenses when covered in paint or dirt or wet or are they instructed to have a staff member do it?

Sorry for all the questions, but curious how you are handling the thermals.
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