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Old 12-23-2017, 08:55 AM   #11 (permalink)
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What problems do eye pipes cause if they don't crack? The ones in our new guns don't crack. I worked our tech booth at Dallas and world cup and went through quite a few guns, all with eye pipes in perfect condition. Seems like maybe you're still forming your opinion off your experience with the older pipes?

I'll tell you a few they solve.

-No tiny screws to hold in the covers which strip easy. The toolless ones are super complex in part count.
-Prevents breech wear so your breech will stay looking brand new.
-Protects the eyes.
-Easy to remove and clean.
-Allows the body to not have the unsightly plates on the side which look like an afterthought. (My opinion)
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Old 12-23-2017, 12:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
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TLDR= I still like dye as a company but they have got to get their act together if they want to stay relevant
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Originally Posted by imped4now View Post
Check out a DSR. Trust me.
You realize you are just helping me prove my point right?

Dye has once again moved on to a new marker and people generate hype behind it. This gets people to buy the new marker but in a few years some problems will likely arise

I mean seriously, it's a lpr-less balanced spool, that was done on the early 2000s with the smart parts shocker. Heck the bolts are even similar. The only difference is dye added a inflow air cut off

Let's look at the list of features and see if any of it is actually new


ARC Bolt - dye says it's new, well I hope so considering you are not calling this a rail or a nt but again to anyone who can use Google go look up the smart parts nxt shocker bolt, it will look strikingly similar because it's the same base design. Id be willing to bet that the original smart parts patents have recently run out on the design and that's why we are seeing it here now

Quick Release Bolt - tool less bolt removal, wake me up when this becomes a new idea

MOS - it's a board, you control it and program it...

Control Joystick - it's a way of controlling the board whoo hoo

Gas-Thru - considering dye was the last major manufacturer to move to a gas through design I really don't feel like it ever should have been a selling point for them

Eye Pipe Breech System - DYE’s Patented 3rd Generation, because generations 1 and 2 worked great! So we are continuing with the same system while trying to solve problems as we go

UltraLite 45 Frame - my dm6 has a ul, have there been tweaks, yes but this is one of the only things I feel like dye found a good idea and stuck with it over the years

Edge1 Trigger - you pull it, marker goes pew pew

Patented DYE Sticky Grips - which have been around since the late 90s

Lockdown Clamping Feedneck - WHAT!? guys, it comes with a clamping feedneck, I never would have expected that in a marker in today's market

Color Coded O-Rings – idiot rings is what I call them, you pay around twice as much for colored rings when a o ring sizing chart you can print out for free. Not to mention dye has been doing this since what, 09? 10? It's not a new feature

Quick Battery Access - as opposed to no battery access?

Freewire Connector - there are no wires, they were replaced with more expensive boards

Low Profile Design - wait, it's not 2 feet tall!?!?

UL TruCam Airport - a on/ off asa on a $700 marker!?!? No way what a deal!!!

Core Barrel - the dye ul is still one of the more liked barrels out there, why go away from it?

H6 Regulator - let's be honest, the only reason this is even here is because the old one would not fit where you wanted this one to go

Hard Foam Case*- a thing to carry it in! What a deal

Once again this is dye rebranding old ideas. Don't get me wrong, I still like the company as a whole they have some of the best for and finish aspects in the industry but ever since around 2010 I feel like they have just kind of stopped trying, for markers all they produce are spools and they are even going away from dual regulated spools recently

There is so much more to paintball. They tried with the dam to get into milsim but couldn't keep the cost down. I really have to wonder what they would come up with if they tried to make a marker for the entry level crowd, something sub$200 to compete with the blitz

Right now there is a huge push for autocockers, they are making a huge comeback and dye doesn't seem to want anything to do with it. Back in the day they made some of the best parts for cockers and the reflex cocker is still sought after today but right now they are ignoring the fastest growing part of the sport, WHY? because it's hard to think outside of the spool box?

Dye needs to actually do something new not just call something new if they want to keep players like myself interested

Step out of your box dye, go make a pump or something you have never done before

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Old 12-23-2017, 12:34 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot View Post
Well, when they release the same gun every single year for 15 years, it's going to tank resale.
Mainly this. It's been awhile since Dye has done anything groundbreaking. They're on the EA/Madden model.

I don't know a single person that actually buys guns from Dye new, at MSRP.
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Old 12-23-2017, 12:59 PM   #14 (permalink)
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when I was shopping mag platform and asked about the dye to people that used it
50% said they didnt like ot for a slew of reasons
50% said it was the best gun they ever had when it works

im still a newb
but i just fork out 1500 bucks on its the best when it works
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Old 12-23-2017, 01:29 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
What problems do eye pipes cause if they don't crack? The ones in our new guns don't crack.
exactly, NEW, in a year though that plastic turns brittle and it's just one more point of failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
i worked our tech booth at Dallas and world cup and went through quite a few guns, all with eye pipes in perfect condition. Seems like maybe you're still forming your opinion off your experience with the older pipes?
again, these are brand new off the line markers. If I work at a auto shop and only work on cars with under 500 miles, shockingly I'm not going to see the long term effects of design problems


Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
No tiny screws to hold in the covers which strip easy.
If you are constantly stripping screws you probably shouldn't be working on your own markers. I've replaced the screws in my dm6 once when I got it in 09, it's gone almost 9 years with the same screws, if they strip so easy then A) how am I able to do this? and B) maybe dye needs to use higher quality fasteners

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
Prevents breech wear so your breech will stay looking brand new.
Dm6 is almost 12 years old and has 0 breach wear, has dye's quality gone down?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
Protects the eyes.
So do eye covers, again, here is a perfect example of what I am talking about. If the eye pipe is so much better then how is it that every other manufacturer gets along just fine without it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
Easy to remove and clean.
Easy to remove? Sure, the problem is you guys have created more to clean not less. Let's say you are having a bad batch of paint and it's chopping all day. You now have paint in the eye pipe as well as between the eye pipe and breach, 2 areas to clean where before there was one

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
Allows the body to not have the unsightly plates on the side which look like an afterthought. (My opinion)
And also makes installing and cleaning eyes themselves more difficult as there is no access on the side

Granted I will agree that you need to do this less but for the normal player, let's say this is their only marker, they are playing at the field and the eyes start having issues and bed to be cleaned. They now have to remove the frame from the body where just about everyone else only has 2 screws to get to the eyes on their marker


You won't agree, I get that, you work for dye but just because you guys have an idea, doesn't mean it's a good idea. You are now on the 3rd attempt to make this idea work, dye used to be a company that was innovative, not one that would stick with ideas that were causing problems

This is all just more reason why the resale is terrible. I was actually looking to get a newer dm over my 6a while back but I've of the major reasons I ended up not is the eye pipe, I just don't want to deal with it

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Old 12-23-2017, 03:28 PM   #16 (permalink)
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What's the issue with the eye pipe anyways? Are they just super fragile?
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Old 12-23-2017, 03:38 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Your take on how the DSR works is incorrect. It is NOT a balanced spool. I designed it. I did the math. It is rearward biased at rest and the rearward force is always linked to the shot chamber. The DSR works different from any other spool. With out the articulating valve the DSR would not work. It is totally new.

To me, it looks like your complaints against dye should be directed at the industry as a whole.

Even still, in your tiny little pocket of experience, you talk about not stripping eye covers. Well, people that actually play tend to get mud or paint packed in the Allen hole and it makes them quite easy to strip. If you don't do the big, ugly head on the outside then drilling it out is a pain. It happens.

On the colored orings, again it's showing just how little exposure to real players you actually have... You wouldn't believe some of the issues people create. Making sure the gun is straight forward and user friendly as possible is necessary. We also put oring size references on the quick start guide.


Before you peg me as someone toting a company line, I have been working behind the scenes for other companies for a few years. The DSR was my first major project with dye, so I could only work so much in on 1 gun. We are making changes and improvements and are also trying to focus on customer service. This thread is about resale and not your personal gripe list of things that you want to see.

So, on another note... If we were to do cockers, people would accuse us of copying inception. Nevermind that dye defined the spool archetype and nobody says that about the other companies that followed suit.

Love us or hate us, we're going to to the best we can to make our products the most desirable through proper engineering and best supported from a customer service perspective.
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Old 12-23-2017, 03:42 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Marauder, old eye pipes did have a tendency to crack. The ones in the current markers are 60% thicker. They don't crack anymore, yet some people don't actually have experience with our newer guns and speak from an antiquated perspective.
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Old 12-23-2017, 04:26 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
Marauder, old eye pipes did have a tendency to crack. The ones in the current markers are 60% thicker. They don't crack anymore, yet some people don't actually have experience with our newer guns and speak from an antiquated perspective.
Is there a possibility of backwards compatibility? One thing that's keeping me away from the newer DYE guns is the reported issues with eye pipes
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Old 12-23-2017, 04:52 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I think this explains why PM8s are so hard to find any more, because they were apparently just a DM8 without an Eye Pipe
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