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Old 12-23-2017, 04:52 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Unfortunately, the new eyepipes are not backwards compatible. The blue-ish ones ones are tough though and reports of issues with them are virtually non-existent. Greg Siewers tightens his barrels insanely tight and when I was running through his DSR at cup, the pipe was fine. Over tightening barrels used to be the main source of cracked pipes, but that's been solved.
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Old 12-23-2017, 04:59 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Your take on how the DSR works is incorrect. It is NOT a balanced spool. I designed it. I did the math. It is rearward biased at rest and the rearward force is always linked to the shot chamber. The DSR works different from any other spool. With out the articulating valve the DSR would not work. It is totally new..
Rearward bias makes it a unbalanced spool. I was giving the design too much credit then. And I know what you are going to say, rearward bias is different than most unbalanced spools, unbalanced is still unbalanced

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me, it looks like your complaints against dye should be directed at the industry as a whole. .
I do have gripes with the whole industry, but this thread was started about dye and in honestly dye is one of the largest problems with the industry stagnating. Dress up the same technology with different terms and call it "new"

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still, in your tiny little pocket of experience, you talk about not stripping eye covers. Well, people that actually play tend to get mud or paint packed in the Allen hole and it makes them quite easy to strip. If you don't do the big, ugly head on the outside then drilling it out is a pain. It happens. .
I'm a airsmith, nice try telling me that I don't have experience though

I said on MY marker, anyone who packs mud in but still has half a brain can figure out that a o ring pick or a .050 wrench can get in there to clean the mud out first. Or idk, this thing called water tends to work well.

If you go just ramming your wrench in there after you know it's packed with mud then again, the problem is not the eye covers it's you

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the colored orings, again it's showing just how little exposure to real players you actually have... You wouldn't believe some of the issues people create. Making sure the gun is straight forward and user friendly as possible is necessary. We also put oring size references on the quick start guide..
If someone wants to spend the extra money on colored o rings, go for it. But even you just said there is a o ring chart in the manual.... Which is what I said is all you need anyway.



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Before you peg me as someone toting a company line, I have been working behind the scenes for other companies for a few years. The DSR was my first major project with dye, so I could only work so much in on 1 gun. We are making changes and improvements and are also trying to focus on customer service. This thread is about resale and not your personal gripe list of things that you want to see..
Yes but low resale price is a RESULT of there not being new features

Look at it this way, take my dm6, sure, I've looked into something like the dm12 on the used market which there is something like a 2 or 300 price difference between what I could sell my dm6 for and but a dm12 for

The problem is there are not 2 to 300 worth of features for most players between the 2 markers. You could get a rail for that money. Heck I could keep my dm6 and pick up a used fep quest for the same extra money and have 2 balanced spool markers


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So, on another note... If we were to do cockers, people would accuse us of copying inception. Nevermind that dye defined the spool archetype and nobody says that about the other companies that followed suit..

By your logic though people should currently be accusing inception of copying wgp yet instead, inception has gone from producing parts to producing whole markers and they are some of the hottest items in the industry. I mean seriously, this is just an excuse.

What was your point with this comment? It breaks down to "dye doesn't want to be called a copycat even though that doesn't seem to happen in the industry" you just made a case that dye SHOULD make a autococker.

Make a hammer rammed spool autococker if it makes you happy

Seriously, when was the last time dye did anything OTHER than a spool?

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Love us or hate us, we're going to to the best we can to make our products the most desirable through proper engineering and best supported from a customer service perspective.
Don't get me wrong, I still like dye, I still think you guys have some of the best for and finishes in the industry. It's nice to know that I basically won't find burrs of metal, banged up threads or fitment issues when working on dye stuff.

But, I think if you guys actually apply yourselves you could do some cool stuff

The spool valve was a cool idea, 20 years ago

The rotor was a phenomenal hopper, 10 years ago

The DSR.... Is another spool

Doesn't matter what you say about it, dye does the same thing with every release, it's like the boy who cried wolf at this point. The NT in example, in a nutshell it's a rail with the bolt cut in half to cut off incoming air to the dump chamber. Yes it's more refined than a rail but that's the basic jist of it. Dye says it's all new, the fanboys get behind it and after a year or so, after the shiny new marker feel wears off people realize that it really doesn't shoot any different. By then the fan boys have moved on to whatever is now "new" but for the rest of us who have mortgages and budgets, where is the advantage anymore of buying something "new" from dye when past experience has taught us that it really isn't new or at least doesn't shoot any different?

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Old 12-23-2017, 05:06 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I think this explains why PM8s are so hard to find any more, because they were apparently just a DM8 without an Eye Pipe
The way it worked typically was the proto version of a marker was essentially the test bed for the NEXT years dm. So the pm8 was the test bed for the dm9. The trade off was you could have the features a year in advance but you also ran the risk of coming across a few bugs

Now that proto is no more though, while I'm sure dye does some testing the stuff doesn't get the long term testing from players outside of the dye tents any more

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Old 12-23-2017, 05:28 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
The eyepipe in our current guns are much thicker than in previous installments.

The DSR was the first totally new marker we've launched in quite some time and my first project with dye. We're working hard to be the best and I think people will see big changes. Resale will improve over time.

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Old 12-23-2017, 06:02 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Too much credit? Even the DM isn't a true balanced design. It has forward bias at rest to mitigate FSDO. It eliminates the need for a mechanical spring as seen on many other "balanced spools."

Most players don't actually care about how an engine delivers performance. They just care that it does. The blow forward design in the rize has been around for eons and yet, it's still a very popular engine. What incentive is there really to innovate the engine? I mean we did and you still claim "it's just a spool." We popularized the electopneumatic spool (along with ICD), so it falls to reason we'd build on our own heritage.

You're dancing around the issue, when you clearly don't understand how the DSR works. It doesn't work like a shocker.

The NT was NOT a rail of any sort. The rail is a subtractive/ air sear marker. The NT is an additive system and was more akin to the SLG (a system dye has patented) with an air-spring return. A trick I used on the DSR.

You keep talking about what you know and assuming all players know the same or even care to maintanence. Most players just want their gear to work and many go entire seasons without ever servicing things like the regulators.

The m2 has the most advanced electonics on the market despite being married to the time proven engine.

The DSR is an entirely new infrastructure and a totally new price point.

The i5 is has a totally new retention system.

We're innovating and are far from stagnant. Until you can prove there is some inherant benefit to moving away from the spool, then I wouldn't count on it.
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Old 12-23-2017, 06:10 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Yeah, I'm gonna say that complaining that Dye hasn't moved far from the spool isn't really a tick against them. The latest Ego isn't all that far removed from a 2K2 Timmy either, and there isn't a spec of difference between a brand new Tippann blowback and a 68 Special.

We've kinda reached peak performance on making a round, jello-filled capsule leave the barrel at 280 FPS. Making them more reliable and easier to maintain is the way to go now and if the newer Dyes are doing that then it's a good move. I'd rather have a gun that's been refined over 15 years than a cutting edge design, no matter who makes it.
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Old 12-23-2017, 06:53 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Yeah, I'm gonna say that complaining that Dye hasn't moved far from the spool isn't really a tick against them. The latest Ego isn't all that far removed from a 2K2 Timmy either, and there isn't a spec of difference between a brand new Tippann blowback and a 68 Special. .
No the latest egos are not, you could argue that the lever valve is but regardless the poppet platform is not the only thing PE produces either. They also make spools in the cs platform

No tippmann has not changed, even the price which is one reason I am not a huge fan of them

Look at spyder though, same base design, they have packed more features in through the years and it has gotten cheaper


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I'd rather have a gun that's been refined over 15 years than a cutting edge design, no matter who makes it.
Well here is the problem then, if you are saying that the DSR is new, then this statement says you would not want it. If it is a refined design then it can't be new like dye is claiming


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Old 12-23-2017, 08:33 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I don’t know about all the details but it seems to me that all electros across the board nose dive in value after the first couple years. At the same time Dye has put out a “new” gun every year that has only very small improvements. But you can’t fault th, almost every company does that to some extent.

I will say on Dyes behalf that they are one of only a handful of independent companies that aren’t just another Kee holding. Every other legacy company has folded in recent times.
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Old 12-24-2017, 05:36 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Dye is the number 1 offender of not changing anything each year and releasing a new year model

Oh the milling is slightly different and the MSRP is higher. Plus new colors

I honestly thought dye left the paintball industry.
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Old 12-24-2017, 05:50 PM   #30 (permalink)
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blueshifty, I applaud your enthusiasm and it sounds like you're an excellent engineer. With that said, I'd recommend leaving this thread to the marketing/CS people at Dye. You're too emotionally connected to the projects and posting in this thread will only get you in trouble.

I agree that the eye pipe problems have left a sour taste in a lot of peoples' mouths, and for good reason. Those things were crap. Maybe they're fixed now, but whoever said that even though they're 60% thicker they will become brittle as years pass is 100% correct. They should be made of a rubberized, flexible plastic like old VL shells.
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