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Old 01-25-2018, 11:32 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Tippmann FT12 is basic tippmann design in an easy to maintain flip top frame. Its composite, so it's light. I'm pretty sure that's why they are rentals.
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Old 01-26-2018, 01:12 AM   #22 (permalink)
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pgp's and phantoms have stiff pump strokes. not good for a small child with weak hands ands arms. smooth pump strokes come with cocker based pumps. but then we get back to the size and weight argument. good luck. there is no right answer.
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Old 01-26-2018, 01:15 AM   #23 (permalink)
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side note. avoid tippman clamshell guns like the plague. horrible to disassemble.
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Old 01-26-2018, 07:54 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mar View Post
I see plenty of IONs and Spyder's floating in the sub $100 section.

If I gave one of my kids (at that age or even their present age) a marker, I would probably remove the ASA or something... so that, if in a fit of rebellion or whatever it is that makes little kids not listen, they couldn't run air to it (if they knew where I kept my air and paint, which they do)
This is a good idea. A PB gun in the hands of a kid could go south fast! I plan to use the PB gun as a kind of stepping stone to teaching firearm safety and maintenance as well.

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Originally Posted by Rusty Brass View Post
Diablos, trracers, or razorbacks are phantomish nelsons. NW spitfires are in the same class as well. Phantoms just have the advantage of modularity and available new parts.
I will definitely look into these, thanks!

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I've got a PMS Brute and an ER2s if you'd like one or both for him. Let me know, this thread made me smile.
PMing you good sir!

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Originally Posted by maggot View Post
Definitely. Weighs almost nothing and simple to maintain. Kid already has an affinity to STBBs.
I might just end up doing this in addition to pursuing a 68 cal marker for him. I've seen some ex-rental .50 cals on ebay cheap... hmmm

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Originally Posted by DarkNinja View Post
The simplest things will be nelson based pumps like Trracers and Phantoms. The simplest semi's are normally Spyder clones like Piranhas.

A basic nelson clone like a Phantom is very, very simple. It really doesn't get any easier. It will get decent enough efficiency without any real tuning and can get damn good efficiency if you are inclined to tune it. They can be very light too.

Spyders are very simple, almost all parts come out easily and even the valve is easy enough to service. A quick strip bolt in the back makes most of the parts just fall out, 3 allen screws remove the asa/low pressure chamber/whatever and frame which gets you into the valve and cupseal. The only thing you can't easily work on is the trigger itself but it rarely needs touching. Get a top cocking or flush cocking model for added safety, I caught my trigger between the beavertail and bolt once, it jackhammered my thumb until the beaver tail gave way. Only happened once and was a fluke but I still remember it. Older Piranhas are usually pretty nice for cheap STBB's. 12g efficiency is not on par with the nelsons.

Tippmann clamshells can be frustrating for some but if he has the patience then they aren't too bad other than the valve is not easy to work on. Remembering all the pins for the trigger and how to place the parts takes getting use to but its not too bad. Most of the Tippmanns I have handled were never light or small, I see a 4 year old struggling with a 98 even with a 12g changer on it.
So the Nelson style markers will generally have better efficiency on a 12g than a spyder? That's good to know, as I've pretty much desided to go the 12g changer route initially. I'm kinda hoping for 30 to 40 shots on a 12g (not sure why I picked that number, but it seems reasonable).

My son has helped me with the 98, and he doesn't mind all the pins and pieces going in (enjoys that part actually), its the putting the clamshell back together, and the front sight spring that I end up helping with. That coupled with the weight of the 98 have me looking for something else.

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Semi shamless plug I have 2 direct feed phantoms. I was looking to get more than a hundred apiece. But for a fellow Mcb member I can hook it out on one of your intrested.

One catch tho you have to teach him how to fullly disassemble and lube it up then posts video of it. Haha. I would say you also have to polish the internals but that key be a bit Much haha

Ps also have a proton super light for when he is ready to make the hump to electro
Duuude - incredibly generous!! PMing you about this!
I will definitely have to take some pics/video to share of him working on/shooting his marker

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyLoincloth View Post
Tippmann FT12 is basic tippmann design in an easy to maintain flip top frame. Its composite, so it's light. I'm pretty sure that's why they are rentals.
Oh, I didn't know these were composite! Thanks for the info!

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Originally Posted by Carlito View Post
pgp's and phantoms have stiff pump strokes. not good for a small child with weak hands ands arms. smooth pump strokes come with cocker based pumps. but then we get back to the size and weight argument. good luck. there is no right answer.
This I did not think of (stiff pump stroke). The only pump I currently have is the ER2, and though he can pump it, he struggles with it. Just needs to build a bit of muscle I suppose. This is also one of the issues he has with the Kaos actually - not quite strong enough to pull the cocking knob. I was thinking about making a pull-ring or something he could grip a little better to cock it.

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Originally Posted by Carlito View Post
side note. avoid tippman clamshell guns like the plague. horrible to disassemble.
I tend to agree...
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Old 01-26-2018, 09:35 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I've got a Spyder based gun you can have, just PM me your address.
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Old 01-26-2018, 01:07 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I agree with others that say Nelson or Spyder for the easiest.

For the 98, the trick is to leave the feedneck on the marker when you go to disassemble it and it will hold the front sight and spring in for you. The marker won’t sit as flat, but it sure beats trying to get that spring to stay put while you line up the clamshells
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Old 01-30-2018, 09:49 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I've got a Spyder based gun you can have, just PM me your address.
Thanks so much for this offer Jodan! Looking forward to receiving this! I think my plan for now is to go two routes - Modify the Spyder for a smaller grip handle and single trigger, and save up for a Phantom or similar pump!

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Originally Posted by Soolio View Post
I agree with others that say Nelson or Spyder for the easiest.

For the 98, the trick is to leave the feedneck on the marker when you go to disassemble it and it will hold the front sight and spring in for you. The marker won’t sit as flat, but it sure beats trying to get that spring to stay put while you line up the clamshells
This is such a helpful tip! Thanks man, I will do this the next time we take apart the 98!
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Old 01-30-2018, 10:01 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I'm also looking to purchase two items:

- A 12 gram changer: What are some good ones? Are the RAP4 or generic ones Ok, or just go with CCI?

- A nice mask for a small head: Any suggestions? I want him to get used to the idea of wearing a mask whenever shooting. The Profiler I have kinda works, but it's pretty big on him. It looks hilarious, I'll have to post a pic, haha!
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Old 01-30-2018, 10:06 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
I'm also looking to purchase two items:

- A 12 gram changer: What are some good ones? Are the RAP4 or generic ones Ok, or just go with CCI?

- A nice mask for a small head: Any suggestions? I want him to get used to the idea of wearing a mask whenever shooting. The Profiler I have kinda works, but it's pretty big on him. It looks hilarious, I'll have to post a pic, haha!
The cheaper RAP4 and generic ones can't compare to the quality of the CCI versions and would say if you have the option, CCI all the way. I have a bunch of the generic versions but only keep the CCI version in my gearbox for field use.

Dye I4s are small and seen it fit smaller heads better than most other masks.
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Old 01-30-2018, 10:59 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I did notice that one of the cheap player pack type masks that I got in a lot was really, really small. Since he’s not going to take any hits for a long while, this might be the way to go. I’ll look around for it and take a comparison pic next to my Profilers

And what Paintzapper said about the 12gr changer....CCI all the way!
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