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Old 09-08-2018, 12:01 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Why do good guns sell bad?

In my latest review effort that was 10 months in the making, I tried to think about why new guns, particularly high end electros fail. BTW this gun was donated by a fellow MCB'er and I love that people here trust me enough to let me review their stuff! (even if I took waaay too long to get the product out there!)

The Vanguard Creed was a good gun, but I explore the reasons why it failed to make an impact in its 3 or so year long run in the market.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht7fPjol4VE

Was it the V1 Creed's teathing issues that doomed it? Or was it the lack of service centers in the USA for almost a year after its release? Did it need a better flagship team than Avalanche to use it?

What other well performing guns didn't get much love in your opinions?

Last edited by kevin qmto; 09-08-2018 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 09-08-2018, 12:07 AM   #2 (permalink)
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mokal aura, now the proton.

amazingly light, fast, and simple.

never had a problem with ether of mine but they just never got the traction I thought they would
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Old 09-08-2018, 12:11 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Question, you call it a well performing gun. Then at the end you ask if the V1 Creed's poot reliability doomed it.
?????
How can a gun be well performing and have poor reliability at the same time?
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Old 09-08-2018, 12:51 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by big jim View Post
Question, you call it a well performing gun. Then at the end you ask if the V1 Creed's poot reliability doomed it.
?????
How can a gun be well performing and have poor reliability at the same time?
Well, because all V1 Creeds were recalled, and thereís far more V2 Creeds than V1 anyways, and if tuned properly they shoot great. The huge difference in shot quality seen in the video was changed solely through reg adjustment/balancing. I donít think the Creed isnít reliable, I think people were worried about its reliability at the time of its release.
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Old 09-08-2018, 03:41 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Good question. I remember seeing a decent number of them a number of years back.

As you said, the first gen reputation killed the second gen guns. I seem to recall complaints about their customer service/tech support as well. Once that starts getting posted everywhere it’s tough to change people’s opinion even it is completely unsubstantiated.

A rocky start with product launch with a vast number of proven competitive options makes for a deep hole to climb out of even after the bugs are worked out.

Great review as usual
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Old 09-08-2018, 06:08 AM   #6 (permalink)
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It also doesn't help that most paintball companies don't do marketing in any meaningful way. Price and performance etc don't mean all that much mostly, given that word of mouth is only really reliable when your product has *significant* improvements over the competition.

Last edited by vijil; 09-08-2018 at 06:16 AM.
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Old 09-08-2018, 06:59 AM   #7 (permalink)
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The Vanguard line did somewhat well in the UK and Western Europe, although thats probably due to us actually having support relatively closeby. Looking at the B/ST groups over here its no longer well regarded since the support is long gone. I remember using a Creed at Tippmann Challenge and it was the first High End Electro I actually liked that was not an Angel. Might see if I can pick up a Creed one day and see if itís as nice as I remember
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Old 09-08-2018, 10:38 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Any of the Action Markers guns.

Excellent build quality for the price, stock features usually only found on upper echelon guns, stellar customer service.

They failed because WGP caught Gardiner's disease.
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Old 09-08-2018, 10:59 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I worked with vangaurd.... Their own hubris killed their company. The guns as sold were awful. I worked a few over and had them running perfectly but it was deemed to expensive to polish and deburr items.
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Old 09-08-2018, 12:10 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I now need to get my hands on a v1 have two v2. Also bought an ego 05 apparently the perfect marker hahah love the rieview. Is the am diadem ever gunna make it to the big screen? I threw a karni reg on it and it shoots pretty well
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