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Old 01-05-2019, 10:45 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The Flounder View Post
Try talking to you local field about providing the paint you want. This way they still get the income and you are still supporting the local filed that brings new people into our sport.
THIS ^^^

your personal pb club may be nice for you, and your group of buddies, and that is great.
However, it does nothing to help grow the sport and bring in new players. truly fields and their owners are all we have to keep up this game we all love to play, and trying to cut out field owners is the fastest way for this to go away.

my home field has historically only kept lower tier paint and even us regulars complain about it to the owner all the time. our home field is also stil byop if you choose. that said, out of respect and support for our field owner, we all try not to exclusively bring outside paint, and have been working on getting our owner to stock better paint. through perseverance and mutual respect, and even doing some of the leg work ourselves talking to suppliers, our owner is a: looking at other suppliers, and b: checking prices for us from his current suppliers AND trying to get us the best deal he can so he doesnt have to rape his regular players on paint prices.

food for thought
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Old 01-05-2019, 11:04 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Phantom Mikey View Post
The answer I always get is that the paintball business insurance won't allow you to use paint that wasn't purchased at the field. They could just be saying that to keep selling paint. I have considered offering to pay a higher field fee in order to use my own paint.
The only reason I can think of is that outside paintball can be "modified" and become dangerous. IE freezing or adding some coating to try to make the paintballs more brittle.
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Old 01-05-2019, 11:34 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by YBBPI View Post
The only reason I can think of is that outside paintball can be "modified" and become dangerous. IE freezing or adding some coating to try to make the paintballs more brittle.
Paintballs don’t freeze and more brittle paint dose less damage. This is an owners way of saying no to BYOP while passing the blame. “Sorry it’s out of my hands”

OP Best bet is talk to your field owner and see if he can get some premium paint shipped with his next order. As an owner You have to be able to stand up to the paint dealers or they will send you junk. I know owners that send skids back if they are not up to there standards. On the other side you have field owners buying paint that has been rejected from other fields at a discount.
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Old 01-05-2019, 11:51 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bgearing View Post
You're mistaken here. There is no authority that is going to shut you down and no one is going to prison; assuming that you're playing with the permission of the landowner.
Been there, seen it happen, gone to town meetings over authority shutting down a club and forcing the owner to comply with laws making it into a legitimate business.
There's no mistake.
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Old 01-05-2019, 11:59 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Been there, seen it happen, gone to town meetings over authority shutting down a club and forcing the owner to comply with laws making it into a legitimate business.
There's no mistake.
We are talking about making a legitimate business, like a co-op, so .....
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Old 01-05-2019, 12:14 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by apamburn View Post
We are talking about making a legitimate business, like a co-op, so .....
how do you expect to play at a BYOP field, which is what most fields are, at this point?
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Old 01-05-2019, 02:23 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Let me clarify one thing: I'm not talking about starting a business - just a club. This is not a thing for profit, just a way of getting people organized. I think if it was a private club using private land, a lot of the legal hurdles would be bypassed, though I cannot claim to be an expert on that topic.

The Flounder mentioned working with the fields to support the entry for new players. I think this is a great way to go about it, but again it's going to be much more effective if you have an organized group. What is gonna be more effective, one or two individuals pestering a field owner about paint issues, or a representative from a paintball club of some 20 people trying to make a deal for BYOP? I think the latter would be much more likely to influence change. There is strength in numbers.

Also I'm fully aware of the challenges of getting large groups of people organized. Also people tend to be flakey. But if you were able to make deals to allow for BYOP, just think how much more enjoyable that would be for experienced players - they may be more likely to show up. At any rate, during negotiations, you wouldn't need your whole group there, you could just use social media to demonstrate your numbers. Of course people would need to actually show on game day in order for this strategy to work out but again if there's a plan to have good paint club members would be more likely to show.

Some have mentioned just convincing the field to provide better paint. Personally I don't like this solution because even top grade paint will go to dog sh!t if it's not properly cared for in storage. That's why I like BYOP, because you can get the paint you want and make sure it's taken care of until it gets used.
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Old 01-05-2019, 02:38 PM   #18 (permalink)
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^ I agree with the idea that not taking care of paint is a problem. I went to a place in San Antonio that kept their paint in a shack. San Antonio regularly sees 95+ weather. The paintballs looked like peanut M&Ms.
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Old 01-05-2019, 02:50 PM   #19 (permalink)
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^ I agree with the idea that not taking care of paint is a problem. I went to a place in San Antonio that kept their paint in a shack. San Antonio regularly sees 95+ weather. The paintballs looked like peanut M&Ms.
My worst example so far is being handed a bag of 500 by the guy behind the counter, where the paint was literally stuck together in one giant cube lol. It just blows my mind what field owners think is actually acceptable, but they get away with it because renters don't know any better. Many renters are just there "for an experience" and will never play again. Of course, if the experience was better, maybe they would come back for more.
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Old 01-05-2019, 04:12 PM   #20 (permalink)
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how do you expect to play at a BYOP field, which is what most fields are, at this point?
You're thinking way too one dimensional.

First, even if this isn't meant to be for profit, which I understand and agree fully that it shouldn't be, such an organization should be a legal entity. A nonprofit or a co-op, some sort of corporation. That will allow it to provide a number of benefits to players and guarantees to landowners that an informal club or group could not.

Secondly, im not only or uniquely interested in playing at fields. Such an organization could establish a relationship with a field for discounted entry or paint for members or something, at club-organized events at the field of it brought a benefit to the field too (like a reputation for good games == large turnout).

But I doubt seriously that fields would be interested, at least not at the beginning. Fields around here don't care about the player base. They care about rentals because rentals = $$. People talking about patronizing the fields to keep the sports alive make me laugh. Maybe elsewhere, but not UT. Screw the fields here.

One of the main benefits of an organization like this is that it could carry liability insurance which would open up private and public land to actual organized play. Many private landowners would be more open to paintball events on their property if the organizers had insurance and weren't just a random group of people. Public land like BLM and forest service (who own a large percentage of the land in Utah) require liability insurance for organized events. A paintball co-op could fill that requirement.

Add in a charitable goal donating some percentage of entry fees or something to a charity and I'm sure lots of convenient, otherwise restricted, areas would be willing to host paintball events.

As a corporation it could also organize discounted group buys of paint and equipment, invest in group equipment like a compressor, and would ultimately be player-run.
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