The Dead Zone Paintball Related Chat

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Old 01-30-2019, 09:00 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Tippmann Flatline Madness!

The original M98 flatline had a longer curved barrel then the latest 98 custom flatline, the a5 flatline and the x7 version, which are all noticeably shorter versions.

I've read some anecdotal posts that the first version was the better version. I'd assume it's slightly extra length imparted more spin on the ball?

If this is indeed true, could one postulate that an even longer Flatline type barrel, with a more aggressive curve, would impart even more spin and thus an even longer flatline shot?

I suspect Tippmann had to balance performance and aesthetics when they decided on the final shape and product.

I was just thinking how weird the "Ultimate Flatline" barrel might look at the end of the day !?


Marker Collection: 1996 RF mini cocker, 2002 RF autococker, bonzai splash RF minimag, 68-Automag RF classic, tippmann pro-carbine, tippmann flatline a5 , tippmann 68-special, smart parts 4x4 sport, tfgpb mech warped sp-1, tippmann sl68II , tippmann flatline model-98, gog enmey, tippmann mini-lite, warp feed rainmaker, mech trilogy SF , pro-team gen 2 micromag, be poison.

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Old 01-30-2019, 10:00 AM   #2 (permalink)
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More spin? Probably. But that's not a good thing - you can test it with an Apex tip which is even more adjustable, but eventually the lift produced would overcome gravity. Instead of being in even balance to produce a flat shot, the ball's path would curve UP before peaking and falling.

More distance, yes. Flatter shot, no.
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Old 01-30-2019, 10:12 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Not to mention, more distance yes, breakable on target no

At the added distance the paint is traveling so slowly that you can't get eliminations (maybe unless you hit someone wearing a Gillie suit so bounces count)

Tippmann just forgets to mention this when they tell you about the flatline

So what's your definition of "better" anyway?

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Old 01-30-2019, 12:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I only had the version 2 flatline but from what I remember the version one created more spin on the ball making the trajectory drop down at first then rise up in sort of a "S" like you get with a airsoft hop up cranked all the way up. The version 2 flatline was a true flat trajectory. The marker was still tipped up a bit but the shot was nice and flat. Not that down then up trajectory.
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Old 01-30-2019, 03:48 PM   #5 (permalink)
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It can't be an "Ultimate" Flatline unless there are six of them.

Somebody send me six (long) Flatline barrels. I wanna try this.

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Old 01-30-2019, 03:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I still have some old UMS 98-A5 Flatlines and a regular A-5 Flatline. I should stick them on the same gun and record the results
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Old 01-31-2019, 07:54 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Flatlines always had velocity issues. You couldn't get them all the way up without breaking paint often.

They never took over because the don't actually improve accuracy at all, and effective range isn't improved. All they really did was made it a little easier to aim. That's not a bad thing.

A longer one would have a less aggressive shape. It would give the same amount of spin overall, but wouldn't be as hard on the paint due to the less sudden change in direction and spin.

I was always a bigger fan of the worrgames version where the barrel was straight, but grooves in the top + the way air flows would stick the ball to the top, making it roll. The great thing about those is it would still work with FS and look better at the same time.

Never actually got to try one.
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Old 02-04-2019, 10:45 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm a backspin master. Been using it since the Apex came out.

I also have mastered the Flatline. I have tons of videos on both and I created the MonsterSpin, which is a new style flatline with an Apex 2 tip on the end which allows you to actually dial in your spin which is amazing and will give you unreal accuracy and flat shots at distances when using good paint.

I was using this barrel system in my video that went viral. And you can see how accurate it is, as there are a lot of single shot headshots in this video.

I use tournament paint in my backspin systems, key is consistency and learning the limitations of the systems.

The flatline is a large bore barrel, as the paint needs to not touch both sides of the barrel to work correctly as it is trying to spin the paint and if it hits the top of the barrel as it is trying to spin you lose the spin, so they made the bore size quite large. This causes the paint to spin, but being loose in the barrel means that you don't get the consistency and some shots end up being "wingers" going left or right based on how they travel through the barrel.

If you chrono a flatline shooting 280fps, and throw a standard nice barrel on and chrono (and your tippmann is consistent to +/- 3fps like mine) then you will see that to hit the end of a flatline at 280fps you are hitting the paintball at 300+fps as it loses about 30fps going through the barrel and spinning up. This is why people say flatlines break paint. As they are hitting the paintball at such a high velocity the paint will shatter. The key to flatlines is to back the pressure down to under 300 when it hits the ball. I run my flatlines at 270fps max. And usually I keep them at 260fps. As this is the sweet spot and will pretty much eliminate any breaks especially if your marker is dialed in...

The problem is most people don't do proper valve/powertube maintenance and their velocities are all over the place (a-5's and 98's) can easily have a +/- 20fps fluctuation if not properly maintained. So they brake paint in the breech and blame the barrel...

Save yourself a lot of headache and learn to properly maintain your powertube in your Tippmann and what things will make it shoot more consistently. This will help you with any barrel system you choose.

Video how to here I made years ago.

Now once you have it dialed in you can run pretty much any paint through it as long as you have the consistency right. Even in severe cold as long as your reduce your fps a little more. I can run just about any paint (including tournament paint) in my MonsterSpin system.

video proof.

The key to good backspin is the ability to have paint that flies well with backspin. It has to be a very smooth shell, with no visible seams, as they cause the paint to wobble when spinning high speed. Then being able to control the amount of spin will help you dial in your shots long range. And yes, using good paint it will break on your opponent. I have so many confirmed kills at over 200 feet it is ridiculous. And with the ZoomCam system I invented you can see lots of them on videos on my channels.

The fill inside the paintball is just as important as the shell of the paintball. The thicker the fill, the better it spins. If you have air pockets in your paint (newer paint often has this problem as they are trying to make paint as cheap as possible) then it will fly wonky and won't be accurate at range.

And yes, with the MonsterSpin barrel you can put the apex upside down and on 3 clicks you literally cancel out the spin from the flatline and the paintball will fly like a normal paintball barrel.

So the flatline adds about 3 clicks worth of spin out of an Apex 2.

I combine both the flatline and run my Apex 2 at 2 clicks typically. Which puts the spin at a 5. But, instead of having the issue of the large bore letting paint go all over, the ramp on the Apex actually helps direct it more consistently. I have also bent my metal piece inside the ramp to make it pinch the ball better as the stock bend is larger than I like as most paint today is very small... This also helps accuracy.

Backspin in the woods is a game changer as tree branches limit your enemy from hitting you, while a flat shot lets you reach out and touch them and with good paint... break on them! I love using backspin and don't ever see myself playing without it.

The joy of hitting someone all the way across the field who thinks they are out of range is just very satisfying and fun!
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Old 02-04-2019, 11:44 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Great vids! Now you just need to ship Doc six MonsterSpin barrels so he can start building his gatling!
Marker Collection: 1996 RF mini cocker, 2002 RF autococker, bonzai splash RF minimag, 68-Automag RF classic, tippmann pro-carbine, tippmann flatline a5 , tippmann 68-special, smart parts 4x4 sport, tfgpb mech warped sp-1, tippmann sl68II , tippmann flatline model-98, gog enmey, tippmann mini-lite, warp feed rainmaker, mech trilogy SF , pro-team gen 2 micromag, be poison.

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Old 02-07-2019, 12:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
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To answer the original question, the ball would curve up.
Long before the flatline barrels, you had CooperT Maximizer bolts.

The principle was the same, backspinning the paintball will generate lift through magnus effect. How much lift depends on how fast the ball is spinning AND the FPS of the ball itself.

The CooperT system was tricky to get working right because the barrel really needed to be overbored a specific amount, running a specific FPS, with a certain OD paintball, etc. Get those variables wrong and you end up with either corkscrews... or a ball that curves up and seems to "float", then drop.

Get it right, and you will get that perfect flat trajectory. I used the maximizers a lot in the early 90s. It was amazing at urban-style fields for shooting through windows and tires where the opposing player could not shoot back through. But never for tournaments because, in the end, they chop more then non-spinning systems, and its pretty much impossible to shoot clean through a break.

I was happy when they came back with the Tippmann system, but it still has the same quirks, and has never really gone beyond being a novelty.

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