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Old 08-07-2008, 02:13 PM   #1 (permalink)
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MQ pump discussion

The reason for this thread is to talk about MQ pumps and how they fit in with pump play in general as it is becoming more mainstream. In the PbN WCPW discussion thread, a couple posters took exception to the fact that some fields are not allowing MQed pumps into competetive play due to recocking rules. (ie the gun must be physically reset, which is not the case in say, an MQ sniper or a Spyder with the bolt pin disconnected)

I think that electro-pneumatic pumps take competetive pump play in an interesting direction. Right now, auto-triggered snipers are sort of the tournament standard - top gun, so to speak. Are we going to see manufacturers come out with a stock EP pump? I could see a product like this taking a top spot with tournament shooters: YouTube - Electronic autotrigger test

Auto-triggered with zero cocking weight, almost no targeting wobble when pumping and shooting. No chance of short stroking, no valve farting.

So, what do you think? Should EP pumps be accepted as legitimate? It's a good question to ask as pump tournaments become more prevalent and mainstream. Competetive players are always looking for an advantage, and MQs offer quite a few.
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Old 08-07-2008, 02:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I think this follows the same line as Pump Mags and Pneumatic Assist-It looks like pump, but it isn't really.

Cool concept, but I don't think it should be accepted at a competitive level. With things like this, you may as well buy a semi.
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Old 08-07-2008, 02:45 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Well, what about the spool pump idea?

I mean, we are essentially using the same technology as the 1980s. There's no question that we have the ability to make pumps that not only reset a valve/bolt, but also have next to no cocking weight. Tournaments, like war, always manage to bring out advances in technology. Now we're seeing the same thing hit competetive pump play even though the idea behind pump in the first place is that it is essentially a purposeful step backwards.

In the end, speed still comes down to a person's wrist speed. You can fix ATers with ball count limits. Is there any point limiting things beyond mandatory pump action lengths?
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Old 08-07-2008, 03:00 PM   #4 (permalink)
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In needing to manually operate the bolt to load the gun, it is being mechanically reset though, isn't it?

I guess until I hear some pursuasive opinions, I'd allow them. Speed between shots is still dictated by how fast you can move the pump handle back and forth (which is dictated by the distance required to allow a ball to drop in the breech and then to seal it again.

Pneumatic assists... different story, since they eliminate much of the distance required to pump the gun.

now here's a question: What about Hitman mods? the pump handle is still moving the same distance, only it's just being pumped by a couple fingers, instead of having the full reciprocating mass of one's hand/forearm affecting each shot
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Old 08-07-2008, 03:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I'd allow them as well, AS LONG as the pump is directly connected to the bolt. Thats pretty much the standard everywhere.

I don't really see much advantage since many poppet-based pumps already have an ultra-light stroke, thanks to light springing techniques.

You end up with a very complex, and expensive pump, with no real advantage other then bragging rights. One thing that might be tricky is the autotrigger. I suppose you could add an eye to the breech to detect when the bolt was closed AND the trigger was pulled, to activate the firing cycle?
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Old 08-07-2008, 03:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
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That's the ironic part, a mechanical sniper with an AT is actually faster than a MQ'd sniper. Although it's just a matter of time until someone gets an AT'd MQ going.

Edit: I'm in favor of keeping batteries out of competitive pump play, but I can't think of a rational reason why.
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Old 08-07-2008, 03:14 PM   #7 (permalink)
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In concerning competitive play rules, I have no problem with any "pump" that requires you the player to move the pump handle ~.68" or more to reset the gun. I do not care whether the move is to reset a hammer or move the bolt as long as that minimum of pump handle movement is required.

Now for regular rec play shoot what you want as long as it is safe
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Old 08-07-2008, 03:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
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That's the ironic part, a mechanical sniper with an AT is actually faster than a MQ'd sniper. Although it's just a matter of time until someone gets an AT'd MQ going.
Check out the linked video in my first post! It's a pretty smart system, relocating the eye to detect the backblock/sled.
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Old 08-07-2008, 03:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
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here's a wild idea:

Require a full length pump stroke, Add a full set of electropneumatics + MQ. Software logic to store "pumped" shots while the trigger is depressed (cache would be cleared when trigger is released), and eye logic to determin if a ball is actually seated in the breech before allowing the bolt to close.

Would that be allowed? While the bolt would be independant of pump, a full pump stroke would be required.
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Old 08-07-2008, 04:18 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Check out the linked video in my first post! It's a pretty smart system, relocating the eye to detect the backblock/sled.
Isn't it a microswitch that the sled is hitting?
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