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Old 12-21-2008, 09:02 PM   #11 (permalink)
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i think reducing the ROF even more was the wrong way to go about doing it. This may turn away some of the paint wasting agg kiddos. The 13.33 bps was a happy median, not too quick so that you can't run through a lane, but not too slow so you can't actually lane. They could have put restrictions on how much paint they could carry on the field or how much paint they could buy for the entire tournament. We'll just have to wait to see how much they are going to reduce it before we can speculate. I don't think mechs will come back though, because the ease of maintenance and adjustment of the poppets and spooly electros. How would you even go about capping a mech? Hopefully this change doesn't cause the downfall of the PSP.
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Old 12-21-2008, 09:23 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The reason why there is a cap, as I understand it, is that "semi" electronic guns are not actually semi. It is far to easy to make a gun either very bouncy or to have a secret cheater mode that allows you to shoot really fast but still avoid gun penalties (because you switch the gun back to a legal setting before the ref gets to inspect it).

With a non-RT mech semi, you don't need the ROF cap because you can't have the gun shooting for you. There really is only one shot per pull, and it will be difficult or impossible to hide a reactive trigger (whereas software settings can be almost totally obscured).

I excluded penumatic assist mags and RT-style markers because I know that those can shoot fast.

I guess the reason to keep electronic guns is to keep up that constant rate of fire on PSP mode. With a Purely mechanical marker, you can't sustain even 8BPS for a minutes at a time (as is required for PSP tournaments), but with the PSP's 3-shot burst ramp, you won't need to pull more than 3-4 pulls/second to keep up 8 BPS.

I personally have never played a tournament or used anything but a semi marker (and I turn mech debounce way up on my electros for safety. I don't like the feeling that my marker is shooting faster than I want it to). For rec ball, I always start out with my Outkast pump. But, the implication to this ROF change could be that I could go to a tourney practice with my mag and a revvy and not feel like I am out-gunned. Meanwhile, those guys with their cheater 24BPS machine gun Egos would have to prove what they are really capable of.

I wonder: if the PSP said that mech semis are unlimited, would tourney players go back to their beloved cockers?
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Old 12-21-2008, 09:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Mechs have character, electros have clinically boring precision.

Follows Mar's advice, it always works.

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Old 12-21-2008, 09:35 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Return of the Mech?

Oh no! If everyone goes back to mechs what will happen to all of Smart Parts patents? They may have to close their doors!

I mean how horrible would the mech world be? People would have to rely on skill and strategy

Sorry just read the SP & Kee patent agreement thread b4 this one
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Old 12-21-2008, 09:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I mean how horrible would the mech world be? People would have to rely on skill and strategy
I guess they would have to get rid of the pro divisions and make everyone work there way back up ... all the old guard would be able to come out of retirement ..

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Old 12-21-2008, 10:22 PM   #16 (permalink)
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and once we do that we can go back to the twelve and ten man games, just for an added dash of nostalgia.
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Old 12-21-2008, 10:52 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I'd say it will be hard to turn back the clock. More than likely, tournies will see small numbers if the rule is implemented. I don't play tournament 'ball so it has no effect on me personally but I would hate to see a bunch of guys leave the game because of it. I think capping the ROF at 13 BPS would be reasonable and perhaps best for the game long-term.

Dunno...have mixed feelings about the ROF issue. I can't do more than about 5 or 6 BPS with my Classic Automag (stock trigger/frame) so what do I know!

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People are leaving anyway, I really think this is for the better. The industry has been cannibalizing itself for years.
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Old 12-21-2008, 11:03 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I agree 10+bps sustained is hard... but I know I can hit it in bursts, cuz a chrony measured it for me. It was for a grand total of 1.5 seconds though. I practice walking with no resistance, which is the issue. I'm fast, really fast, with my right hand, but I can't get force behind it. So on gun, I can rarely get past 14, even on a good electro trigger.

If people were forced to care about trigger speed, frontmen would be smarter with shot placement, and backmen would get finger weights. Sounds more fun to me... actual skill diversity, past just movement and reloading.
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Old 12-21-2008, 11:20 PM   #19 (permalink)
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In all major tournament leagues, ROF is measured as the shortest time between 2 shots
(and that's actually how they lay out the rules). People just take the reciprocal
because it is easier to rationalize.

With that type of measurement system, nearly every mechanical gun would be banned.
If you "fan" the trigger, I am confident you can get any mech (Spyder, Tippmann, 'Mag,
'Cocker) to fire 2 balls in less than 1/10th of a second (assuming that is what they
change it to).

And for that reason (and many others) mechanical guns will never be "reborn" on the
national tournament scene.
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Old 12-21-2008, 11:42 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I agree 10+bps sustained is hard... but I know I can hit it in bursts, cuz a chrony measured it for me. It was for a grand total of 1.5 seconds though. I practice walking with no resistance, which is the issue. I'm fast, really fast, with my right hand, but I can't get force behind it. So on gun, I can rarely get past 14, even on a good electro trigger.

If people were forced to care about trigger speed, frontmen would be smarter with shot placement, and backmen would get finger weights. Sounds more fun to me... actual skill diversity, past just movement and reloading.
I don't want to turn this into a "how fast am I" arguement, but what the chrony is measuring is as xluben states below, the shortest time between shots. The same way I got my Ego's Max ROF mode to read 42 bps.

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Originally Posted by xluben View Post
In all major tournament leagues, ROF is measured as the shortest time between 2 shots
(and that's actually how they lay out the rules). People just take the reciprocal
because it is easier to rationalize.

With that type of measurement system, nearly every mechanical gun would be banned.
If you "fan" the trigger, I am confident you can get any mech (Spyder, Tippmann, 'Mag,
'Cocker) to fire 2 balls in less than 1/10th of a second (assuming that is what they
change it to).

And for that reason (and many others) mechanical guns will never be "reborn" on the
national tournament scene.
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