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Old 01-19-2008, 08:12 PM   #61 (permalink)
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This was the most antagonistic reply in the entire thread! It borders on being itself a flame, and surely reeks of smoke!

I've read the entire thread and found it to be a very passionate yet civil conversation about a difficult and relevant issue facing our country today.

Great job guys!

I see nothing in these postings that any of you should feel ashamed about, no matter which side of the issue you are on.

There are two side to every business. The management and the workers. If a union can effectively and efficiently protect the interests of both, that union is a viable and worthwhile entity. If they can't understand this, or are just self serving, then neither will last for long.
See we can act like adults sometimes.
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Old 01-19-2008, 08:58 PM   #62 (permalink)
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I am a union member and never thought I would be one. I started fresh out of college working for a manufacturing company that was a union shop. I was in a non-union position. There were good and bad guys working there but overall, I came away feeling that unions were worthless. Too much "that is my job, not yours" and working to the piece rate and no more. That company merged and everyone in my town lost their jobs (several hundred) and the company moved operations and administration to the Camp Hill/Harrisburg PA area.

I went to a non-union manufacturing company for a year before that job ended. That company has since ceased operations in this area.

Now I work for the US government and I am in a union (American Federation of Government Employees). Why? Well, I felt that my union dues were worth the legal protection should I need to defend my job in court. Our union doesn't have the right to strike because we work with the public but the union does offer legal assistance if the need arises.

I still feel that some unions can be abusive but I have also seen my fair share of abusive actions from management. I know from experience that unions can be a hinderance to efficient operations. On the other hand, I do feel some unions help their members from managers and administrators that take advantage of their employees.
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Old 01-19-2008, 09:25 PM   #63 (permalink)
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you asked for both sides, thats what you got

I just read the whole thing..whew, I was Union for 17 years. I was HE operator in a huge papermill. That place needed it, since then I have worked in a couple different jobs. I have seen both sides. The first job I had afterwards was a Non union shop all though some shops within the company where union. My shop could have benefited from one.
Unions help the working man when the owner ship is not always looking out for the worker. The worker in return is supposed to give forth the best possible professional work. In other words we, both the company and the worker get the most bang for the buck.

It has already been hit on here before, almost everything the modern worker has right now is from a union demand. Do you really think it would take very long for it to revert back to the way it used to be? If there was no checks and balances between the workers and company's.
Look at the big box stores today 7 days a week and 24 hours a day.
I realize people have to work there and I am sure some MCBers work there. But these places get away with whatever they want there is no union to say whoa! That's enough big box, pay some double time to these guys that work holidays or pension plans whatever.

Unfortunately, we are going backwards in that aspect, because America is moving away from being the huge manufacturing power it once was and turning into the retail center.

Have unions in some areas got bloated? sure Have employers done the same thing? yeah double that in some cases. I can't give figures but I have read over and over the average CEO salary and perks are in overdrive and the average workers can't keep up.
You have too put it in prospective if the company can afford to pay a CEO 5 million plus, they should be able to pay joe bluecollar a decent wage too.

I would say that both the workers and the company in the first post need to get back on track, before the worker and the company are both out of work.
And that should start with Pride, Union Pride, or just American pride.
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Old 01-19-2008, 11:09 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by paintslinger16 View Post
I just read the whole thing..whew, I was Union for 17 years. I was HE operator in a huge papermill. That place needed it, since then I have worked in a couple different jobs. I have seen both sides. The first job I had afterwards was a Non union shop all though some shops within the company where union. My shop could have benefited from one.
Unions help the working man when the owner ship is not always looking out for the worker. The worker in return is supposed to give forth the best possible professional work. In other words we, both the company and the worker get the most bang for the buck.

It has already been hit on here before, almost everything the modern worker has right now is from a union demand. Do you really think it would take very long for it to revert back to the way it used to be? If there was no checks and balances between the workers and company's.
Look at the big box stores today 7 days a week and 24 hours a day.
I realize people have to work there and I am sure some MCBers work there. But these places get away with whatever they want there is no union to say whoa! That's enough big box, pay some double time to these guys that work holidays or pension plans whatever.

Unfortunately, we are going backwards in that aspect, because America is moving away from being the huge manufacturing power it once was and turning into the retail center.

Have unions in some areas got bloated? sure Have employers done the same thing? yeah double that in some cases. I can't give figures but I have read over and over the average CEO salary and perks are in overdrive and the average workers can't keep up.
You have too put it in prospective if the company can afford to pay a CEO 5 million plus, they should be able to pay joe bluecollar a decent wage too.

I would say that both the workers and the company in the first post need to get back on track, before the worker and the company are both out of work.
And that should start with Pride, Union Pride, or just American pride.
I agree with every bit of this, been in the union for 13 years.
I have never considered myself a "hardcore" union man. After becoming a union steward .... I will protect and uphold my contract.
I do pay the price for it ,I get fired several times a year for little stuff. Must be doing something right for them to focus all that time on me.

As all of you know it needed to be agreed upon by both sides, not just the (evil money hungry) union calling all the shots.
I have always considered the union the lesser of the 2 evils, if the union wasn't there you would be rolled over by the big companies.

My .02 cents ....
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Old 01-20-2008, 11:04 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Woking in the Oil/Gas industry in Canada doing remote field construction for the last 4 years... The industry a 50/50 mix of union, non union and (not a typo) a non union union. I'm non union and my company is fairly large.

Seen my share of hardcore union workers, and frankely, almost all of them don't work for my company anymore. Horriable attidude, poor work ethics, and trying to preach their union to us..... Walk in with a Union Tshirt.. walk out with a pink slip (not literally, but the last 3 peoples fired were wearing a 'Union Pride' Tshirt).

In my Electrical apprentiship (4 years of in the field training, 4 sessions of schooling, it's mandantory and ran by the government... best schooling by a government ever) I've seen quite the variety of workers. The majority of people that made it through the 4 years were non union; we had 10 union and 10 non union students in my second year and in my fourth year we had 15 non union and 1 union student.

I've seen a union guy try and fight a non union guy over a mild discussion on the pro's and con's of unions.. I guess unions are perfect haha. This was during a schooling lecture too.

And people in a union have a better lifestyle? Ha, I don't think so. Want to go work in a camp hundreds of miles in the bush close the Arctic circle, work a crappy shift (10 on, 4 off), no job stability and never being home? Who want's to work night shift?

I make the same wage as a union guy, work as little or as much as I want to, home almost every night and have awsome benifits. My company is hardcore anal on safety too ( awarded the safety leader in my province). What I give back to my company is work ethics, safety of myself and coworkers, and have a willingness to learn more.

It's fun running jobs a hundred miles in the bush, trying to keep my apprentices busy, following code, dealing with the mechincal crew, engineers, and consultates happy, getting material ordered and at the same time bust your butt off. All at being 23 years old, and about to become the 'senior' Electrician.

Point is, I'd never get this chance with a Union to run jobs at my age or experience level. Too much division of labor. I'd have 5 people doing my job instead of 1. It would take forever to get anything done too.

Last rant: Sites with union and non union workers. Ever have to walk down 20 flights of stairs beside a HUGE boiler and then walk another 1/2 mile to get a bathroom cause your not worthy of using the union toliet ??? Can't use the lift either... union people only.

It's your job; give a little and take a little.
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